User talk:Jimregan/Archive1

Heya, and welcome to Wikipedia. Please don't create subpages like you did on the Therapy? page (i.e. pages separated with a slash from the article). We are trying to get rid of those entirely. Thanks. --Eloquence 08:48 Apr 21, 2003 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks.

Yay! A fellow Irishman. 'bout bloody time. We are few and far between. But it is so much fun correct the mountains of errors about Ireland others (particularly Irish-American) put on wiki! Slán ÉÍREman 04:05 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)

Heh - it's ironic, but the only such error I've changed so far is for a British band being claimed as Irish (My Bloody Valentine). I've come across some of your work and been intimidated... I think I'll stick to writing about bands for the time being. BTW, this is the preferred form of reply, isn't it?

Jaysus, don't be intimidated! :-) One thing I found was that I didn't realise just how much I knew until I'd discover a page and find myself spotting mistakes. You'll probably find that too. Replying here on the person's talk page are both fine. Putting it on the latter does have the benefit of you then getting a message saying there is a message. But either is OK. ÉÍREman 20:54 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)

Hey, I responded to you at User talk:TUF-KAT/List of albums. Many thanks for all your work so far, but I would like to point out a few pretty minor things.

I reworded one para at Decade of Aggression. The original wasn't badly POV (if you haven't yet, see our policy about maintaining a neutral point of view), but I attributed the view to Slayer's fans.
Songs should be quotes, albums in italics
Genres aren't capitalized as a rule (there are exceptions, like New Wave). I fixed this at Hell Awaits
Don't preemptively disambiguate albums unless there's an obvious need for it. For example, there's no reason Infernal Love (album) shouldn't be at Infernal Love, unless you know something I don't about another use of the term. It's easy to disambiguate later if another use comes up.

Tuf-Kat

I caught the reply, forgot to say thanks. Sorry. I was thinking the Decade of Agression bit wasn't NPOV (I flagged it in the summary), but it never occurred to me to attribute the view. Guess I can go remove a bunch of extraneous stuff from the albums list.

Jim, I should apologise to you for barging into PS/2 just now. That was rude of me. Tannin

Nah, you obviously had more to contribute. I just found it fun to watch the way the page grew within minutes of putting up the FOLDOC stuff!

Hello Jim.

Should you again meet the problem of Right Back, please do not hesitate to add it to Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion, where you can list articles you think have been deleted with too much haste or by mistake, without going through the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion process. This page was set for that purpose. Thanks and good contributions. User:anthere

Thanks. Martin brought my attention to it earlier, but I chose not to vote for it, since it is just a stub. I think I need a User:Jimregan/Notes to self page to keep track. Luckily, people are pretty quick to give a nudge in the right direction, thanks again for being on of them. -- Jimregan

Yo. I'll help you on Everything is Wrong if you want. I'm done working on Animal Rights, though: I loaned the CD out and never got it back. Koyaanis Qatsi

Go right ahead. I just have that list so I can have a todo list. I haven't really done much on albums for the last week, and I can't find that one anyway. Jimregan

Hiya long long long long long long distant cousin! :-) If you get a chance, could you look at Republic of Ireland/temp to see what you think. Slán FearÉÍREANN 03:07 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Ha! 57th cousin a few hundred times removed? Why not. Had a look at it while ago. The history section looks more like the stuff I had to remember for my Leaving Cert alright, and the counties section looks more like the announcements after elections. The counties bit looks alright, but for certain purposes (eg sports, postal addresses?) they still go with the traditional counties, right? For Tipperary anyway. And isn't the fada on the 'i' in FearÉÍREANN superfluous? :) -- Jimregan 03:19 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Speaking of real operating systems, just imagine the culture shock of coming from Unix-oriented academia to 1988 Apple, where the big achievement of the previous year was a machine with a separate color monitor and a motherboard with slots... Larry Tesler told me it would take six months just to get over the shock, and he was pretty accurate about that. The tables are turned now - Unix folks in charge, and old Mac people grumbling about it! :-) Stan 05:49 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Heh. My culture shock was discovering Linux in college, after using Windows. "Don't UNIX licenses cost hundreds of pounds? Don't you need special workstations?". I was shown a Mac after that, but it just didn't fit my inclinations. Plus, after being forced to use them at a previous job, I hope to never repeat the experience. -- Jimregan 08:45 29 May 2003 (UTC)

Hi Jim. Calling a fellow Irishman. Defend your country! *grin* Actually a recurring problem has cropped up again. Some months ago a user called Scipius tried to screw up the Republic of Ireland page. He wanted to call it simply Ireland even though the page is only on the RofI, and everyone else told him it should be called the Rep of Irl. He tried to change facts and got into a major row with me, with other Irish users, with Northern Irish users and people who had worked on the page in general with his pre-occupation with changing things to his own highly inaccurate understanding of Irish history, culture, politics, etc. Now he is back again and trying to rewrite the agreed template on the RofI page; one of his recurring insistences for example, is in suggesting that the Irish and english languages have equality of status, by removing a simple reference to the Irish language being defined as the national language and english as a (not the) secondary language. On past evidence, he will simply keep reverting the page again and again and again, ignoring any past consensus reached until it people can get it clear to him that he is not getting his way. So it would be a great help if you could keep an eye on the page and tell him that the page as it is (I reverted his changes) is factually accurate and his 'version' is factually inaccurate and simplistic. In the past people have just given up when he has waged his factually dodgy war elsewhere. But there is no way I am going to let him screw up the R of I page again. The more Irish people join in the better. Otherwise we will have weeks of him ignoring everyone and bulldozing his way through, as he tried (and failed) the last time. FearÉIREANN 02:59 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Another of those damnable Irish-Americans eh? :) Will do. I'll take the evening watch. BTW, nice to see I've had some small influence on you (i.e. the loss of the superfluous fada, italics in e-mail) - maybe one of the days I'll come under your influence and write a good article. On the "getting more Irish people to join" front, I've been trying to get a friend of mine to chip in, though I think he'll wait till he's gotten through your articles first (he loves his politics - used to spend his mornings arguing with Morning Ireland when I shared a house with him in college). -- Jim Regan 20:24 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi there Jim, just thought I'd point out that JTD's representation of me is somewhat off (and no, I'm a fellow European ;)). You can see User talk:Jlk7e for a lengthier reply. It's a pity that JTD is not in a particularly cooperative mood, but I'd like to mention that my intentions and edits aren't anything near what JTD suggests they are. Thanks for listening. -Scipius 22:58 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sorry about that characterisation I made of you - a joke between JTD and I (as you may have gathered from other comments on this page). Having read your changes, and reasonings, and JTD's, I would tend to agree with his position; after all, the consensus seems to be with him, your contributions to the Republic of Ireland page do have inaccuracies, and it is inappropriate to discuss the history of Ireland in a page about the Republic. That said, I think if you and JTD could discuss these changes point by point I think you could both find some common ground. There was a thing or two I thought sh/could be kept (the details escape me at the moment), but I didn't have the time. I might have another look later. -- Jim Regan 19:26 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Jim, re the fada. I never actually noticed I had accidentially fadaised (if such a word exists!) the i and capitalised it as well until you mentioned it. I meant to thank you for spotting that, so a belated . . . oh hell, I can't remember the Irish for 'thank you' *embarrassment*. I see that Scipius has contacted you. Oh lucky you! :-) The saga of Scipius and the Republic of Ireland goes on and on . . . and on and on. How many users does it take for Scipius to listen to them? It was like this the last time and like the last time Scipius just ignored everyone and changed things to his way. (Though John reverted.) The irony is Scipius is a good contributor, just a tad "stubborn" as Mav put it. He doesn't seem to grasp that having cleaned up the mess on the Irish pages that was on wiki before (go to the old John Redmond page if you want a laugh. Though I hasten to add that was nothing to do with Scipius) Irish users tend to be rather stubborn too when it comes to defending accuracy with regard to Ireland on wiki. Having once had a page that said deV won the civil war (which would have come as a surprise to him!) the days of inaccurate half-baked Oirish stuff packed with simplistic theories and monumental inaccuracies are over. Only Scipius seems incapable of realising that he is wrong. I wish a user with his ability would stick to pages where he knows what he is talking about not forcing his version when people are queuing to tell him he is wrong. Plus ca change. lol. FearÉIREANN 23:30 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Go raibh maith agat is what you were looking for there. Tá fáilte romhat (I think. Dammit, I won a scholarship to a Gaeltacht years ago, but I've not had a use for the language since my Leaving Cert). deV eh? I've seen people get into lengthy, garullous (and drunken) conversations about the whole deV/Collins thing, and to be honest, it never interested me much—it seems to bring out the inner Nationalist in too many people. And don't get me started on the what have the British ever done for us B.S. -- Jim Regan 19:26 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Good idea. I see 149.101.1.126 is doing strange things to articles again. Sometimes they add in good stuff, sometimes POV garbage. I've appealed to them to stop, be careful, understand what NPOV means and how the naming conventions work. Sometimes they follow them, other times just bulldoze their way through with dodgy stuff. I have asked Mav to have a word with them to see if he can talk some sense into them. *sigh*. In 30 minutes I will be enjoying a pint in the city centre. It cannot come soon enough!!! FearÉIREANN 18:19 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Damn, thought I replied to this earlier today. Bloody Mozilla keeps crashing on me. Hope you enjoyed your pint(s?), have a WikiPint on me :) I had a look at what you meant about 149.101.1.126 - sheesh. I think most of the POV (libellous :) stuff can be covered by a simple, two word instruction - attribute opinions. -- Jim Regan 02:04 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Have you tried the safari browser? It is the best I have come across. Opera is also pretty Ok. I see you have done some edits on work by 67.122.114.153 on Phil Collins. Can you be sure the original article is accurate? The problem is that people strongly suspect that 67 . . . is Michael *sigh* again. If it is Michael and is accurate, the best solution might be to blank Michael's version and state you are doing that. Then install the text under your name with some textual changes. I know it seems a bit alkward but everytime Michael sees that his version unreverted exists it acts as an encouragement to him to think he can still work on wiki and get away with it. Another alternative might be to do a redirect to the basic text rewritten by you under a new article name. Such actions by everyone might just get the message through to that ejjit Michael that the entire wiki is saying to him "fuck off! Though it is a long shot. FearÉIREANN 16:50 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Safari? Isn't that Apple's version of Konqueror? (Yes, it is, never mind). I'd use KDE on GNU/Linux but I have a damned Winmodem, and it's taking me a while to get ADSL (sorry about that alphabet soup). As to the 67... edits, I did check, though if I'm completely honest, I'm not 100% sure about the track order, just the names. I've never knowingly listened to Phil Collins voluntarily, so I never could be 100% sure :) I wouldn't be too sure about that being Michael - the info (I saw) was accurate, and it's anathema to a punk (as Michael claims to be) to listen to an old fart like Phil Collins! I don't see the point in blanking Michael's stuff, as in anything I've edited that he's touched, there's never been any sentences, just track listings, dates &c, which don't merit that sort of rewriting once verified. I know most people prefer that approach, but a lot of them have more of an axe to grind with him; I prefer to live and let live where possible—I'll just try to take on what I can do in a timely fashion to try and take the load off. Like I've said before, (though where, I can't say) Michael is an annoyance to most, but a motivator to me, in that most of the articles I work on are music related, and within my tastes, which have some overlap with Michael's; and I don't think it right to put articles up under an incorrect title, as would be the case if I were to rename an article written about an album or band. (Speaking of getting a kick up the arse, your message prompted me to verify those Phil Collins pages).

Hiya, could you take a look at British Isles. There is one user who doesn't seem to understand that it is seen as a geo-political term, not merely a geographic one, and seems to think that the offence is caused on when the term is wrongly interpreted. They seem not to understand that this term is a problem for Irish people, and keeps adding in POV stuff to the effect of 'it is only offensive if you interpret it as offensive.' FearÉIREANN 20:09 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

That's been put in again, but honestly, I don't have the expertise to give a yay or nay in the matter, so I don't feel it would be apropriate for me to merely revert the changes. Though I am going to give it another look, and leave that sentence intact whatever I finally decide, just so you'll know I've been iffy about it!

Right, in the end I reinstated a sentence describing Irish distaste for the term (though it is stated later in the article). Oh, and sorry if my replies have been rambling and incoherent, I'm just back from the pub :) -- Jim Regan 04:25 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I was just thinking about the last sentence in that message. Funnily enough, the logical part of my brain made me want to argue with it, in the sense of "well, I'm Irish, and I don't take offense to it", but being honest, I found that I do take offense to it. I find it strange that though I've been brought up to eschew this nationalist nonsense, and can see the logic in the naming of the "British Isles" that I can still feel this knee-jerk "I'm not f***ing British" kind of reaction. Wierd! Best you look over my revision, as I'd forgotten enough of Irish history to have been shocked earlier tonight to find out a guy I was talking to was both a nationalist and a Protestant. -- Jim Regan 04:52 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Did you know that Ian Paisley gets thousands of Catholic votes? I'm dead serious. At this point you have probably fallen of your chair, are clambering up in a state of confusion going "what the fuck did I just read?", have read it and collapsed down on the ground again in shock. But in the 1998 European elections, 4 people voted Ian Paisley no.1 and Sinn Féin's candidate no. 2. OK. there you go down onto the floor again in shock. If you are shocked, think how Big Ian felt! And Sinn Féin! OK now that you have recovered from all your falling around, I looked over the page and agreed with the sentence you put in. In fact I agreed with it so much I went and redid the entire article again. :-) I can understand the point the original author is making about it being a geographic term, but he doesn't seem to grasp that in the real world there is no such thing as geography, or history, or politics, or economics, or . . . Everything is tied to everything else and looking at it purely from the point of view of geography is not merely factually wrong but ludicrous. It is much much more complex than that and hopefully the rewrite conveys that. OK. It is 6.25am. I have a bad cold, a hideous cough, my nose could run in the Special Olympics and I have just taken more Uniflu (Oh and if I take any more cough mixture I will be higher than Ian Paisley's ego! So Slán. (Is Oiche Mhaith still appropiate as it is a nice bright morning here in Dublin???) FearÉIREANN 05:27 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. There I was writing on your page, and you on mine. BTW, have you stopped laughing yet about Cabin Fever??? Talk about the ultimate Irish joke. And on Friday the 13th!!! FearÉIREANN 05:30 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I've seen that about Ian Paisley before. It doesn't really surprise me, as I've seen in various places that he's not quite the demon his newsbytes make him out to be. Voting Paisley 1 and Sinn Fein 2 though... sick puppies! I don't know about "oíche mhaith". Maybe best to go with "Slán go fhóill" (though I'm not sure about the ó vs. o there). Don't worry about the cough bottle; it's pretty hard to get any with codeine in it any more (memories of my not-so-distant teenage years :) I might be reaching for the aspirin later... I have to commend your choice of Uniflu—it give cold and flu the old one-two y'know :) As for Paisley's ego... he's a politician, it's in the job description. -- Jim Regan 05:43 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

And there I was writing a reply here, and you got here first. Cabin Fever? Huh? -- Jim Regan 05:43 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

You do know what happened with Cabin Fever last night? Is there anyone who doesn't know??? The friggin' ship sank of Tory Island!!!! FearÉIREANN 06:01 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Oh. I started a reply, you beat me again. I'll quote myself; "OK, I googled it. Is that the reality TV show you're referring to? Because I avoid those like the plague. I haven't watched anything on RTÉ since I got Sky Digital about 3 months ago either, so I need filling in here!". So, there you go, one person who didn't hear. Though I'm sure I'll hear about nothing else for the rest of the week! Ship sinking? RTÉ? Where's the surprise? :) -- Jim Regan 06:05 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It is on wiki's front page! (OK. I put it there!) See Cabin Fever. Half a million euros worth of ship smashed on the rocks. And the blooming RTE film crew had left the boat half an hour earlier after filming for 15 hours. 15 hours of nothing. They leave. The ship hits the rocks and everyone has to be rescued. And there is no-one there from RTÉ to film it. Aaaaaaagh! Talk about bad luck!!! :-) I wouldn't mind but I know the exec-producer, Julian and he's a decent guy. Why couldn't Pat Kenny have been on the boat??? Now that would be funny! FearÉIREANN 06:11 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Media prediction the show: Cabin Fever is set to be the summer's reality tv hit. They were talking about the show, guys, not what they suggested you do to Tory Island! FearÉIREANN 06:15 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

OK, I really like that the crew missed it. They'd have turned a profit otherwise. One more nail in the coffin of reality TV (hopefully). You know the exec producer? He wouldn't be due a ribbing over this now, would he? That is, unless you like to watch grown men cry :) -- Jim Regan 06:18 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

He got me onto radio a few times, which was a handy little earner (stress the word 'little'. £35 for guesting on a show with Joe Duffy, £30 for something with Marian Finucane. I think £50 for something with P. Kenny) He once almost forced me to tell a story on radio - 12.15pm on a sunday. People come out of church, turn on their radio and there I am telling a story with the word "fuck" three times. (Actually it was a true story that involves someone coming out of a confessional, seeing someone they hated, belting them with an unbrella and saying "you fucking bastard. You fucking hoor you". Then realising they were in a church, getting embarrassed, saying A jaysus turning around and going straight back into the confessional that they had been leaving, with more sins to confess! *And the cursing all took place in a strong Cork accent. I witnessed it, hence the story!) Joe turns about 15 shades of red and purple with embarrassment. The other guests get the joke and roar laughing. ANd Julian (the bastard) almost pisses himself with enjoyment as Joe Duffy's embarrassment. (Yet Joe did bring me back on again!!! But he did threaten to physically strangle poor Julian and get him back. Maybe that is why the ship sank. Joe 'holed' it as long delayed revenge!!! FearÉIREANN 06:29 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm sure he twisted your arm. And like you don't know any radio-safe euphemisms. I'm trying to picture Joe Duffy as the Godfather now... doesn't quite work :) -- Jim Regan 14:04 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Jim,

Have you voted yet on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (years in titles)?. I am afraid that wiki is about to make a major captioning error. It seems to be voting to putting the year first when naming elections, sports events, etc. While people often do so in spoken english, in titles and captions it doesn't do so, because to do so makes the year the central fact, whereas in reality what the event is is central, the year the disambigulation point. For example, media outlets caption election coverage as Election 2000, General Election 2000, Presidential Election 2000 etc because the the fact that it is an election is the main fact to know, that it is a general/presidential/local/state/congressional election central. We have been following this rule for ages on wiki, so we have everything from UK general election, 1970 to U.S. presidential election, 1932 to Irish general election, 2002, etc. Moving to [[1932 US presidential election]] goes against standard media caption style and would involve the wholescale renaming of pages covering elections and all sorts of events from all over the globe. You are talking about hundreds if not thousands of pages having to be renamed and go against standard caption style, which is often called the where what, when rule. After all, people if they are searching for a page on an election will use the name of the election as their entry point for a list (particularly if they don't know the year). Typing in a search for U.S. presidential election throws up a clear orderly list of US presidential elections, with the disambigulation year at the end uniformly.

As you may guess, I do think wiki's proposed to system would amount to a pointless waste of energy in remaining vast numbers of pages, especially when it is to a format that is generally not used in titles and captions but only in speech. And this debate is all about titles. So I am canvassing support to vote down what I think is a flawed, ill thought through and pointless that originated initially with Adam Rinkleff (in the Susan Mason persona) some months ago and survived as an idea after SM was banned. (I don't know if you know about Adam. Basically Adam was another Michael only more devious and who caused chaos for six or seven months, creating multiple personæ who went around wiki spreading mischief and provoking edit wars. Sometimes he'd have two 'trolls' working at once; in an attempt to convince us they weren't him he'd have them talking to each other. But each in turn was banned and Adam claims now that he has stopped his infiltration, though few believe it. So if nothing else this message has given you some background info on our most famous troll, Adam, who would make the likes of Michael or DW look like amateurs in comparison!) wikilove FearÉIREANN 01:46 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I looked at it, and was disappointed to find that while I could vote several times, I couldn't weight my voting. Maybe it's just that I've only experienced voting in the form used in our elections, and in the "just pick one" form.

Now, the thing I don't understand is why there has to be a single convention for years - the two main examples given were for elections and sporting events, but the convention I've always observed are that both use different conventions - 2002 Premiership and General Election, 2002 &c. Since it's natural to assume that people who work on sporting events and those who work on elections wouldn't have much overlap, both here and in, say, newspapers, why can't these different groups use their own conventions? Are people really that opposed to the use of redirect pages? The waste in energy goes in both directions, as the sporting people already have their convention, and the elections, as you have said, have another. To me, it's much like the capitalisation debate you commented on in the mailing list.

And no, I've never had any dealings with Adam. In fact, apart from one-off vandals, I've never had any dealings with any of them except Michael. The thing that gets me about the whole thing with Michael is having to deal with the aftermath. Having to constantly check pages to see if he's been around tampering with them is no big deal to me - I end up checking revisions to any page I've made changes to anyway (or, at least, the one's I'm interested in). -- Jim Regan 02:49 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It is a fair point re different styles for sports and everything else. re Adam - oh you were soooo lucky never to deal with him. He was the troll from hell. When I joined, there was an edit war going on, where people would all work together on a version of one particular page. An agreed version would be worked out, then Vera Cruz as he called himself, would tear it to shreds and produce a version that was factually incorrect, hard to read and blatently POV. It would be reverted, he would revert. Then his cancer would stread to other pages, and he would almost stop the wiki as everyone got focused on the latest Vera Cruz versus the entire wiki became the issue. Over a few months, Rickleff came back as Lir, Vera Cruz, Bridget, Susan Mason, Dietary Fiber, Zxcvb, Shino Baku and a host of other trolls. At one stage to try to convince us that they weren't the same person and neither was Adam, Susan and Dietary began leaving messages for "each other" supporting each other against all the attacks. But then one of them inadvertently claimed that they had done an edit that the other had actually and demonstrably done so they were caught. One night it all came to a head. Zoe, 172, myself, Tannin and others decided "fuck it. We have had enough."

So, as now happens to Michael, we waged total war. Everything Adam in the name of his latest troll touched was reverted on sight. One page on James I of England was reverted by the minute all night. If he so much as changed a comma, it was reverted, no matter how accurate (and a lot of Adam's stuff was quirky, to put it mildly!). Eventually he went away and sent a message to Jimbo saying he was gone for good; he even give a list of his trolls and it turned out there were some that had not been caught. He swears he is gone for good, but few believes it. Unfortunately some new users came on at the time of the 'night war' and, not knowing what was going on, presumed Zoe, Tannin, 172, I and others were bullies attacking this poor user!!! (Cpromt still thinks we were hard on them. He never had to deal with them, though. Adam's classic stunt was to start off all nice and polite, do something, people would change it and nicely explain why it was wrong. Adam would be so nice and polite . . . and change it back. So the gullible user would be all nice back, trying to explain the change. Then finally it would dawn on the user after a week or two that they were falling for an act. Adam was ignoring everything they said while pretending he was listening, appreciated their friendliness, was thinking about what they said etc. And he'd find a gullible newbie everytime to fall for it, sending messages around saying 'why are you all being so horrid to this poor user? If you explain the problem they will listen'. 2 weeks later, that newbie would be spitting blood, screaming "that son of a bitch" at Adam, by which time another newbie had fallen for the charm offensive. (I did once in my time too!) So the next time you hear people screaming that 'x' or 'y' is Adam or Lir, don't be surprised if things get a little heated or that you find yourself facing an unexpected charm offensive from that x or y, as they mutter 'but I'm an innocent user being attacked by all these bullies' before taking you for a ride if you are not careful. Comparing Michael to Adam/Lir is like comparing Charlie Haughey to Hitler. :-) FearÉIREANN 03:55 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Heh. Wiki Reminiscences. "When I was a lad, we had to walk six miles to use Wikipedia, in our bare feet, to spare the shoe leather, all up-hill, and in the driving hail". That said, I've been getting a few nostalgic moments of late, both for college, and when the young lad was still an infant. I'm only 23, goddammit! I'm too young to be nostalgic! I'll give it a month before it's something like "I remember the good old days when the cabal was just a joke, and we didn't have to pay our daily tithe to the evil sysop over lords. Why didn't we listen to GrahamN?" :) -- Jim Regan 04:40 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)