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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was - kept

Lil Jon

[edit]

Lots of nonsense substantiated by broken or irrelevant links. Someone put a lot of effort into this one(wut kind of asshole wastes his time). --fvw* 01:18, 2004 Nov 26 (UTC)

  • Keep, the guy's practically synonymous with being a douche bag and holding his race back. If it has errors, send it to cleanup. Gazpacho 01:43, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • BTW, I clearly remember an article on Lil Jon being vandalized(right on) before (someone added the words "...saying 'what' 'yeah' and 'okay'. It is unclear why this is so popular.") Could someone dig into the backups to see if the article history has been lost? Gazpacho
  • Articles about real subjects that are nonsense are a real problem. This article didn't in fact need cleanup, because it was entirely a fabrication. I Gazpacho has turned it into a stub (edit conflicted me but with a much better version). Fvw, please consider googling the subjects of pages you don't approve of before listing them for deletion. This guy is clearly a figure in the rap world, and deserves a page.FUCK THAT I don't have the time or inclination to write it but that doesn't mean no one will. Oh yeah, Keep, obviously. Dr Zen 02:05, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: Please do not hector VfD nominators. Googling "Lil Jon" would turn up what? You're looking at a nonsense article, and you get to Google, and it turns up a rapper and you have to assume it's the right one. Well, if it's a nonsensical article, what good is that? Geogre 03:11, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Keep the lecture to yourself. I offered a polite suggestion to fvw and here you are flaming me again. The good is that you can build Wikipedia by replacing nonsense with a new article, rather than simply deleting what you do not like.Dr Zen 03:48, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Wow. Saying "please" is flaming? "Replacing," by the way, is deleting. We don't usually like to preserve vandalism and hoaxes in edit history. I suppose this is a flame, too? If my saying "please" was flaming, I suppose you were flaming User:Fvw. Also, how do you know I don't just love Lil Jon's music? Assumptions are dangerous things. Geogre 16:42, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is that the royal "we"? I missed our appointing you as spokesman. If deleting pages that have suffered vandalism was the norm, there'd be nothing on George Bush, John Kerry or anything to do with penises.Dr Zen 00:28, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
We don't leave vandalism in the edit history. There's nothing royal about it. (Or is it contradicting you or urging civility that's flaming?) We revert vandalism. That removes it from the edit history. You must be new to Wikipedia to suggest "replace it." Geogre 03:17, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, I've lost all sense of what you're saying. Reverting does not remove something from the edit history. It's all there.Dr Zen 03:51, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just deleted it again. For the FOURTH time. The first time, he was a little blond Swedish boy (there were photos). This article has been in four different version with four different sets of nonsense. I intend to delete it each time, and ban the person who creates it each time, until somebody says something to indicate that the content is valid. RickK 06:16, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Gazpacho created a perfectly valid version. You were utterly wrong to delete it. Doing so was a blatant abuse of your admin powers.Dr Zen 09:56, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This article is now listed on Votes for undeletion. Gazpacho
You've deleted it four times? After two or three, I'd think you'd start to realize that it might make sense to let the VfD process take its course. Factitious 07:02, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
Why should I list patent nonsense on Vfd? The versions I deleted bore no resemblance to what is currently on the article. RickK 07:14, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
    • I created a version of Lil Jon in May 2004. now on my User Talk page [1] This article more than established the notability of Lil Jon as a recording artist and producer and I don't know why it has gone missing. For the record, Lil Jon is a notable artist and producer of crunk music. MTV News said that his latest album debuted at #3 in the Billboard 200 album charts as at November 24 2004 selling 363,000 copies of his album Crunk Juice. [2] According to his website, his Kings of Crunk went double platinum [3] According to All Music Guide, he has had several albums and singles make the charts. [4]

He won three awards in the Source Hip-Hop Music Awards in October including Producer of the Year and for his collaboration on the #1 hit by Usher Yeah which he produced and appeared on. 5 A Google search shows over 883,000 articles for Lil Jon 6 including pages on MTV 7 and VH1 8. A Google News search 9 shows 325 articles indexed under Lil Jon. I and other users such as Gazpacho will hopefully work on restoring the Lil Jon article to an appropriate condition. However, we would be grateful if Rick K would withdraw his threat to delete and ban legitimate users who upgrade this pafe so that we can get on with restoring this article. I appreciated that this page has obviously been the target of vandals and RickK's commendable concerns on this account but it will allow us to create an encyclopedic article on a noteworthy musician. I vote keep and I will work to restore it with other legitimate users over the weekend.Capitalistroadster 12:01, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • I'm almost convinced. Provisional Keep, but it's red now, so I can't say for sure. I think that's a question for votes for undeletion now? Who deleted it? It was listed on 26 Nov, so it should still be here for another couple of days. Kim Bruning 18:04, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Undelete, let Capitalistroadster and Gazpacho et. al. work on it, and strong keep and probably protect. This is a top-shelf legitimate subject that is obviously a target for persistent anon vandalism, as the present patent nonsense from vandal 142.32.208.231 shows. Samaritan 18:34, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Extreme keep and allow for cleanup. The individual is highly notable. [[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 18:45, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have no problem in keeping a version that doesn't contain blatant nonsense. RickK 00:02, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep present article, specifically this specific revision and appropriate revisions thereof, with various caveats. My understanding, based primarily on comments of others, is that a) Lil Jon is a notable artist in the genre called "crunk" (Googling seems to confirm this), that b) this specific revision, mostly the work of Gazpacho and Capitalistroadster is factual, and that c) this article seems to be a target for vandalism and therefore there have been moments in time when this article has consisted of royally delete-worthy nonsense. (If things come to light that convince me that Lil Jon is not notable or that this specific revision is not factual I might conceivably change my vote. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 04:33, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment I've protected the page, at least for the duration of the VfD discussion, so that at least we can be sure everybody is discussing the same version. I realize this is an inconvenience to active editors of the page, and suggest that they compose any rewrites on Talk:Lil Jon in anticipation of merging them back eventually. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 12:53, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) P. S. I've also blocked 24.64.223.203 for 24 hours... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]]
  • Keep. Let's all try to calm down here. Vandalism shouldn't drive us to delete important pages. The topic is notable and encyclopedic, so why delete it? Factitious 07:02, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
Because it read (and this is only the first two paragraphs of an extremely long bit of nonsense) "Lil' John (also known as Lil J, John Will, J to the Lizzle, L to the J, Litthy Boo), born David Burton Dirkowitz (November 24, 1966-November 22, 2004), is an African American rapper with one of the most highly distinctive styles of the 2000s. His talent as a musician, coupled with a problem-plagued private life and erratic public behavior, made him one of the most well-known members of the successful 3 man rap group J&R&D Unit and an influential force in both rap music and the modern hip-hop culture.
"Born in Stockholm, Sweden, with only 4 fingers on his left hand, David Dirkowitz founded J&R&D Unit (Also known as Jarad Unit) with his cousin, Lappy R, and a childhood friend, The Dutch Douche. Armed with his long golden hair, deep romantic voice, almost slurred and off-beat delivery and humorous antics (Once when US President George W Bush, offended by his musky oder, asked if he had taken a shower the morning previous Lil responded with "Why, Mr President? Is one missing?), he was recognized as a pioneer who provided a breath of fresh air to the increasingly artificial world of rap music. He coupled an authentic ghetto mentality with the street credibility and the musical integrity necessary to be taken seriously in the hip-hop movement. Lil John' pioneered use of The Stranger and the overuse of the words 'What' 'Yeah' and 'Okay'. He also popularized the word "Skeet, skeet, skeet, skeet, skeet, skeet" which meant to ejaculate on a woman." RickK 07:14, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
    • So, there have been times in this article's history when it was royally delete-worthy, so it was a good idea to bring it up for discussion here, so the outcome of the discussion has been to establish that it is a repeatedly-vandalized article about a valid topic. The article has been fixed, we all now understand that there's an issue with vandalism of this particular article, and we'll figure out how to deal with that. That's what VfD is for. If all sysops were experts on every topic and could infallibly determine whether articles were valid or not, we wouldn't need VfD, we'd just let the sysops to make all deletion decisions. C'mon, folks, now everyone introduce yourself and shake hands with the neighbor on your left, now introduce yourself and shake hands with the neighbor on your right, now allemand left your partner, and grand right and left all the way home. And smile. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 13:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. 119 09:27, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. --[[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 19:21, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Obviously keep, I understand if someone made a mistake and didn't realize who he was at first, but this is a case where we should de-list an article from VfD once it is explained that the person is in fact very famous. Everyking 23:39, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • KEEP! Lil Jon is a legend. what sort of playa-hater wants to get rid of Lil Jon????? best producers from the south=Lil Jon and White Dawg BrowardPlaya 07:10, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep As is, the article looks good.Cari0028 02:02, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep YEAH! He is a real life notable person in American pop and music culture. He is not by all means a Swedish boy like the anonymous vandal implies. --Anonymous Cow 23:49, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • His videos are shown on MTV, good enough for me. Keep. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:57, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep anyone who gets a UK number one single should have a wikipedia page. [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 18:19, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Note: We should be preparing for the unprotection of this page. In case of vandalism, I'd like to ask everyone in this discussion to be sure that Lil Jon is on their watchlist. If it's on your watchlist and if you check into Wikipedia regularly, please sign here. When I'm see that a fair number of folks are watching it, I'll try unprotecting it and see what happens. Just add your signature inline below. Or, I'll unprotect it on request if someone with an account wants to edit it. Just let me know. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 13:01, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) P. S. I really just wanted a compact inline list, I've just edited my own and others' remarks in this section, hope that's OK, if not revert or edit as needed.

User:Capitalistroadster says he want to make some edits, so I'm going to unprotect the page and we'll see what happens. Please keep an eye on it, everyone. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 00:17, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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