Wikipedia talk:Banning policy

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Should our guidelines for user talk pages include something on how topic bans apply to them

My mistake, this is covered

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

We've discussed this before but I don't think come to any conclusion. If I'm right and this applies to user talk pages, which is what it suggests, would it be useful to mention this at Wikipedia:User pages? Doug Weller talk 16:02, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Doug Weller, you may want to provide a bit more context for those just joining us. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Firefangledfeathers Sorry. Topic bans normally cover all pages related to the topic in question. If we agree on that, I'm suggesting it be written into our guidelines for using personal talk pages. I'll change the section heading also. Fortunately I haven't started cooking yet! Doug Weller talk 16:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The last bullet point in the WP:TBAN section of this policy page says explicitly that it applies in user space, including user talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tryptofish damn, should have read that more carefully. I searched for "user talk" which of course didn't find that. I'll point this out to the user I was thinking about. Doug Weller talk 07:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Explicit policy on third party "appeals"

I propose two changes/additions to the page to reflect how policy is actually being enforced:

Explicitly state somewhere that third-party appeals are not entertained, similarly to the page on blocks.
From the table in WP:BLOCKBANDIFF, change: "Bans imposed by community consensus or for repeated block evasion may be lifted by community discussion (unless needing ArbCom review)" to begin with "After appeal, bans imposed by community consensus ...".

Background for this can be found here. Having these two statements would have saved me time, and the time of some very annoyed administrators. Epachamo (talk) 16:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've made this proposal about a month ago, with no feedback, I'm extremely hesitant to just make the changes to such a high profile policy page. Is this a be bold situation? Do I need to get an administrator to make a change to a policy page? Epachamo (talk) 02:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The AN section you linked is now archived here. Sorry, I don't have an opinion at the moment but people are generally reluctant to change long-standing wording that has generally worked. Also, there is always an WP:IAR possibility that a third-party might have a good reason to ask for an unblock of someone and that should not be shut down by more wording here. Johnuniq (talk) 04:55, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do TBans include edit requests?

Are you allowed to still make edit requests? Why is the rule not clear? Emdosis (talk) 18:26, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Topic banned editors are not allowed to make edit requests related to the designated topic. I think there's a lot we could do to clarify what a topic ban covers, but I think this case is already pretty clear in the policy, especially:

the intro: "The purpose of a topic ban is to forbid editors from making edits related to a certain topic area",
and the fifth example: "discussions or suggestions about [the topic] anywhere on Wikipedia"

Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Firefangledfeathers. This is both the written policy and usual practice. In any case, the admin who imposed the ban can vary the conditions to make them stricter or weaker than usual, so that is who you should ask regarding the details of your ban. Zero^talk 03:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Topic bans are something that should not be confused with the extended confirmed restriction for the Israel-Palestine topic area, where edit requests are the only permitted action. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exceptions to limited bans

"...or obvious violations of the policy about biographies of living persons.", should simply say 'obvious violations of Wikipedia's policies' imo. Emdosis (talk) 18:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. It's too common to see that t-banned editors have unorthodox, inconsistent, or erroneous interpretations of policy. I can see the case for the BLP exception, since we're so sensitive around BLP issues, but expanding the exception is more likely to lead to problems than to fix them. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Firefangledfeathers. Absolutely agree. We don’t want arguments about policy, BLP is the only exception we should have for the reasons you give plus many of these editors are in any case too inexperienced to understand them Doug Weller talk 17:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addition to PROXYING

WP:PROXYING, part of this policy, limits what actions editors can take at the direction of banned or blocked users. We don't currently have any constraints placed on the banned/blocked users themselves. I'm suggesting that we add such constraints, though I don't have a draft in mind. Is there any interest in proscribing, possibly with some exceptions, directing others to edit on your behalf when subject to a site ban or site block? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:09, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Directing others to edit on your behalf while banned is ban evasion, which is discussed in Wikipedia:Banning policy § Evasion and enforcement. One potential consequence is discussed in Wikipedia:Banning policy § Reset of ban following evasion. isaacl (talk) 04:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can a topic ban from a ct area specifically exclude “broadly construed”?

If it does that seems to create problems for both the editor and any Admin trying to enforce it. Note this is not a hypothetical question as it’s based on a ban from gensex with this exception. Doug Weller talk 17:12, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The standard set of restrictions described at Wikipedia:Contentious topics § Standard set includes page bans (from the entire contentious topic, a subtopic, or specified pages within the topic). So admins are authorized to impose an editing restriction for a tailored subset of the designated contentious topic area. As a matter of practicality, they should be very clear on the boundaries of that subset. isaacl (talk) 17:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with isaacl. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:54, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree with Isaac but want to note that Contentious topics rules are set by ArbCom so we can't really come to a binding consensus here. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 18:04, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's not a matter for community consensus, but I also don't think we should read something into the contentious topic procedure that isn't there. As currently written, it doesn't specify that editing restrictions under the scope of the standard set must be on a broadly construed set of pages, and as far as I can recall, there is no context in the procedure that implies this. isaacl (talk) 19:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that if "broadly construed" were automatically required, it would go without saying. In the vast majority of instances, it's beneficial to say "broadly construed", so it gets said the vast majority of the time. But the fact that it gets said implies that, if it had not been said, then it wouldn't necessarily be the case. We now even have page blocks, so in theory it should be acceptable to ban, explicitly, from a clearly defined narrow set of pages, if that is the chosen sanction. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting a topic ban?

Is there a way to request a ban from a certain topic? Kowal2701 (talk) 14:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For whom? Wikipedia:Banning policy § Authority to ban describes who is able to enact editing restrictions (such as topic bans) and the circumstances for each case. isaacl (talk) 15:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Myself? Kowal2701 (talk) 16:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Admins don't have power to issue TBANs based on editor request, though I guess you could request a block and then request a TBAN as an unblock condition. TBANs are not enforced by any technical measures, so they depend on the banned editor governing their own behavior, in addition to scrutiny by other editors. If your goal is just to engage in that sort of voluntary restriction with some limited accountability to others, you could put something at WP:RESTRICTIONS#Voluntary. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:05, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A topic ban is a restriction enacted due to problematic behaviour, so the community normally won't enact one without actual poor behaviour. In any case, the most general form of a topic ban can't be enforced by a block, so if you're just trying to keep yourself from succumbing to temptation, a topic ban won't help. If there is a specific page from which you want to be blocked, see Wikipedia:Blocking policy § Self-requested blocks, which has a link to a list of administrators who will consider your request. isaacl (talk) 16:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]