Talk:Goulash

Inviting Variations

I changed the heading "Adaptations" to "North American Variations" - since, 1) the products described are not adaptations but variations on the goulash theme (you can make a perfectly authentic Hungarian "gulyas" with North American ingredients, so there's no need for adaptation to locally available ingredients - thus, it *is* a question of variation, not adaptation), and 2) the only variations discussed in the section are North American variations - as common in Canada as in the United States, and there are undoubtedly Mexican variations, too (which are probably hotter than the Hungarian original, by the use of chili peppers hotter even than hot Hungarian paprika). However, there may be other variations of goulash from other parts of the world. I would imagine that at least Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Argentina would have some serious diversions from the Hungarian original, if not many other countries to which Hungarians have emigrated over time and made their culinary contributions. I would not be surprised if there were even an Indian version of gulyas, thought it would most likely be made with lamb instead of beef (as strict Hindus will not eat beef, but they will eat lamb). So, I have tagged the section with an invitation for other people to add variations from other parts of the world -- and, if they do, the current heading can be changed again.

Meanwhile, here is my mother's recipe for goulash: Brown a pound of lean hamburger with a medium sized diced onion. This can be done in the kettle itself to save time and cut down on the washing-up. Add chopped or diced green pepper, paprika, and one or two large tins of sliced or whole tomatoes (cutting them up in the process). Heat thoroughly to a simmer. Add elbow or shell macaroni and continue to cook until the macaroni is done. Serve hot. Afterward, the macaroni will continue to absorb liquid even after it cools. The leftover goulash can thus be served for lunch the next day as a cold casserole (provided the meat used was sufficiently lean that there is little or no animal fat residue on the macaroni).

Meanings

The origin of the word is coming from the method of cooking. The word Pörkölni(verb) means:to burn a tiny bit or to calcinate, and Pörkölt means: a tiny bit burnt or calcinated. When you prepare this dish you use a special pot, called: Bogracs. You put the ingredients(meat, onion, some fat/oil) into the Bogracs and put on a fire. You must not put the water in by the time the meat is burnt a tiny bit. In addition: the Pörkölt is widespreadly made of: beef, mutton, pork and poultry(the best thing is to use a real old cock, this one is often served with noodle flavoured with cottage cheese). There is another special Pörkölt, which is made of beeftripe. This is my favourite if I could say that. Thanks.

It might be worth noting that the Hungarian gulyás is actually a soup. Pörkölt is closer to what is called goulash (in Western Europe, at least). --Isk_s

Or not. At least not around where I was born (Alföld). "Gulyásleves" (goulash soup) is not "gulyás" (goulash). --grin ✎ 22:07, 2004 Aug 7 (UTC)

I find the article informative, balanced and accurate (to the best of my knowledge). However, in order to ease confusion we Hungarian neighbours (I am from Croatia) live in, it would be nice to compare goulash to Paprikás and Pörkölt, with special attention given to possibility of addition of sour cream. :) (BTW, the meal that article referes to as Slovenian "Partizanski golaž" is in Croatia simply called "Krumpir gulaš", meaning goulash with potatoes.) --bonzi 17:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

if you put potatoes in pörkölt it will turn into paprikáskrumpli, --80.99.42.236

No it won't, it'll turn into a sorry excuse for gulyásleves. Paprikáskrumpli contains sausage, not stew meat. Marti 72.81.31.6 20:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

In fact, traditional paprikáskrumpli doesn't even have to contain any kind of meat product. Csab (talk) 00:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

To Bonzi: in broad terms, pörkölt is made (almost*) entirely of meat (which can be of any animal, not just beef), and contains the most paprika. Gulyás introduces potatoes and/or vegetables (NOT tomatoes, though), and contains slightly less paprika. Gulyásleves adds more water to gulyás, and definitely contains both potatoes and soup veggies. Paprikás goes back to being almost entirely meat (usually chicken), is thickened with sour cream and flour, and contains the least amount of paprika, despite the name. *All of these dishes start with browning some chopped onions in the hot fat of your choice, so even a completely unadulterated honest-to-goodness pörkölt is not 100% carnivorous. Marti 72.81.31.6 20:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

It is hard to find a good gulyás in Hungary, and it is close to impossible to get one outside Hungary

This sounds like it need some NPOV work. --Notthe9

no kidding, this article is way too defensive. this encyclopaedia's job isn't to exhaustively and repetitively address misconceptions, but instead is to catalogue facts. hamstar

Please specify what you mean. I don't think it is debatable that if something exist in original form, and it is sold nearly everywhere else as something completely different then we could say "it is pretty much impossible to get the original out there". (Like I would sell tomato soup called "beef steak", which is close to the case you asked about.) I don't know about you but I happen to be a Hungarian and tried "goulash" in several countries, and most often than not it was (to quote Douglas Adams) "almost, but not quite, entirely unlike goulash". :-) I am really open and curious to find countries where this food happen to be the same as the original one. --grin ✎ 09:22, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

Try the Aztek restaurant in Taiwan. They make perfect gulyásleves. They call it 耍笑 though. --80.98.250.126

It isn't enough that one can suppose something could be or is likely to be true; it must be verifiable. This article (as of now) fails that test. Also, everybody, please remember to sign your posts. Thanks. --DragonHawk 02:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I must say that this is a bit troublesome. I actually came to wikipedia to help settle an arguement with co-workers, most of whom are of Italian decent, while I am of German. I understood goulash to be made with a small portion of meat, with potatoes and lots of cabbage. My co-workers insisted that it was made with ground beef, tomato sauce and pasta. I have found recipes on-line for it both ways. So, with that in mind, we truely need to locate the 'origins' of the word, then define it. However, we should note in the page that the ingredients can change from region to region.

I am from Austria, and know the situation in several other central European regions: The classical Gulash definitely neither contains potatoes nor cabbage. Potatoes are contained only in "Erdäpfelgulasch" which is quite a different beast both in ingredients and preparation. With cabbage you get "Szegediner Gulasch". I have NEVER seen a version with both potatoes and cabbage. Nahabedere 08:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

You are insisting that the only goulash on this page should be your authentic goulash - I hate to break the news to you but in North America there are regions of people who call the "Sloppy Joe" goulash. This whole article needs attention, but especially from someone who will weigh Austrian sources against English speaking ones. For more than a few of us the word goulash just means "braised meat in a sauce which has not been braised"68.115.35.110 (talk) 04:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

"Sloppy Joe" is another food, but in some sense it is similar to goulash. Probably that is why it is often referred to as gulash by some Americans. After all, there are millions of Americans who have Central European ancestry, they (or their parents/grandparents) probably knew the original goulash, noticed the similarities and started to call the "Sloppy Joe" gulash. I have added a link to "Sloppy Joe" to the "See also" section. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 05:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm American (of Central European ancestry) and have never heard of Sloppy Joe referred to as a goulash. America is a big place and there's dialectical differences even in American English. I think sources should be provided first. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 06:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. The Sloppy Joe article claims (without providing sources) that Sloppy Joes are also referred to as "Gulash (not to be confused with Goulash) in parts of the Upper Midwest, especially in areas where people of Scandinavian heritage are prominent.". I do not know whether it is true (I have never heard of Sloppy Joe referred to as a goulash either, but I am not American), however, since the two foods indeed have some similarities, a link in the "See also" section seems justified. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 06:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Segedinsky gulas

Travelling in the former Austria-Hungary, one can frequently spot "segedinsky gulas" on the menus (not only in the Czech Rep, but in Slovakia, Slovenia, Austria as well). I tried once, but it is not the "traditional" goulash, and what's more, it is not known in its supposed place of origin, Szeged. It would be interesting to know something about this goulash-version. --195.56.49.35

In Szeged (or anywhere else in Hungary), ask for Székelygulyás. Which brings up another point: It's a mistake to translate the name of this dish as "Transylvanian goulash": it was actually named after a person named Székely, not for the ethnicity/region. The story goes that Mr. Székely (I'm vaguely recalling that he was an actor, at least some sort of public figure) went into a restaurant very late, and the only things left in the kitchen were some pörkölt and a bit of stewed sauerkraut, so the chef combined the two, heated them up, and served it forth with a generous dollop of sour cream. The guy liked it so much that he came back the next night and asked for the same thing, and it kind of went from there. (The restaurant must've either been in or named Szeged, which would explain the appelation this dish goes by in Austria.) Marti 72.81.31.6 20:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Amongst my family's Viennese friends, a gulas with sauerkraut and pork was known as a "Tsegediner Gulasch". I don't know what the origin is, and would treat any stories as myths - of course, one of them MAY be true! ;-) Sasha (talk) 22:52, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

With noodles

My dad makes Goulash with noodles- is that common or did he make that up himself? -albrozdude 22:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It is common in North America. Betty Crocker's Cookbook gives a Goulash recipe with elbow mac, as well as another recipe, called Hungarian Goulash, which is _somewhat_ closer to the one described in the article but still seems to have been Americanized to some extent. What is common in Hungary I have no idea. --Jonadab, 2006 Sep 06

Putting noodles into the goulash-soup is very common in Hungary. It is also very common to serve pörkölt (the meal on the picture) with noodles instead of potatoes. In fact pörkölt with noodles is much more common than pörkölt with potatoes. In Hungary the most common gulyás is a soup with meat and potatoes and of course paprika, paprika-powder, onion, salt, pepper, garlic, celery. People eat it with white bread. The other common meal is pörkölt made of meat, onion, paprika, paprika-powder, salt and pepper and optionally some red wine. It is usually served with noodles and salad. American cabbage salad tastes great with it. Dry red wine goes well with these meals.

Putting certain kinds of noodles into goulash-soup is common in some areas of Hungary. (Csipetke, where my mom's from.) Everything/where else is heresy. :) Márti 72.81.31.6 20:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

There are different traditions in different families and areas, as in Borshch (I won't start!) Our Viennese friends often served Gulasch with Semmelknödel - dense dumplings made from stale white bread, or with nockerl - a kind of crude home made pasta. Sasha (talk) 23:10, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Cooking time and Goulasch affection

PPOV-1: "Nowadays, it is also often eaten at restaurants, because its long cooking time makes it impractical for working families to prepare at home!."
PPOV-2: The cooking time is not an impractical factor at all! If people eat the dish more frequently at restaurants, perhaps it has to do more with habits and lack of interest or knowledge than anything else, and that restaurants often prepare the dish days in advance, which makes it a lot more tastier as the dish 'matures' (especially turning even 'tough' - and cheaper - meat wonderfully tender) until it is reheated and served later on.
This preparation could actually be very practical also for a working family, as the goulasch (or any other similar dish) after 'maturing' can be divided into smaller portions and put in the freezer. Taken out in suitable portions and heated up again in a micro-oven gives a wonderfully tasty, nourishing and quick meal.
Totally it's time-saving, inexpensive and delicious. That's a yum habit for soul and body! --Profero 07:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

"Citation Needed"?!

What is with the overabundance of "Citation Needed" tags in the "North American variations" section? Virtually anyone who grew up on homecooking in the American Northeast can attest to those facts. The following example of this tag is completely ridiculous: "its inclusion in popular cookbooks in the twentieth century, e.g., in Betty Crocker's Cookbook. [citation needed]" Just open a Betty Crocker cookbook; how much more citation do you need?

"The addition of noodles or pasta (elbow macaroni being particularly popular), which does not so much thicken the product as absorb the juice of the tomatoes. [citation needed]" We need to cite a source that pasta absorbs sauce? Or is this referring to the popularity of elbow macaroni? The one other point I can see being in dispute is the use of tomato juice in American goulash as opposed to tomato sauce. I don't think we really need to cite a source for the statements that American goulash is different that the original Hungarian dish as the article just outlined the differences between the two. 192.82.6.41 21:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Sausage?

Someone's mixing their metaphors, or recipes. Gulyásleves never contains sausage, at least not in my experience, or in any of the cookbooks I own. Paprikáskrumpli, which can be considered to be kind of like a pörkölt made with potatoes instead of meat, is the one that needs some "dirty potatoes", i.e. sausage. What gulyásleves DOES need, and is not mentioned anywhere currently, is soup veggies: carrots, parsnips, celery, etc. (in addition to the potatoes, of course). Then, if you make a gulyásleves with all of the usual ingredients except the meat, you get hamisgulyás "fake goulash". From what I gather, this is similar to the "partisan goulash" mentioned elsewhere. Márti72.81.31.6 20:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Meat is cut into chunks, seasoned with salt, pepper and paprika, and then browned in a pot with oil.

I do not believe you can season meat with paprika and then brown it - the paprika would burn, spoiling the taste of the sauce with bitter taste and its apperance with black specks of burned paprica.Most receipts for paprica flavoured dishes I know recommend adding paprica at a later stage of the cooking - either lowering the temperature before putting in the paprica, or mixing paprica separately with fat at a moderate temperature and then adding it into the stew. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Georgius (talk • contribs) 16:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC). Sorry for forgetting to sign--Georgius 16:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

either lowering the temperature before putting in the paprica, or mixing paprica separately with fat at a moderate temperature and then adding it into the stew.

Yes, this is exactly how all these stews are made. Cooked on a very low temperature.

The meat is browned for some 30 seconds, than water is added and the temperature is lowered, imediately.

Warrington (talk) 22:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Allan Sherman's "recipe"

Allan Sherman's "recipe" for Hungarian Goulash (in his parody song "Hungarian Goulash No. 5") is actually self-referentially recursive, since among the various national or ethnic dishes mentioned (which at the end you're supposed to put together "in one big mish-mosh") is Hungarian Goulash itself (the first item mentioned in the song, in fact)... so you need to make some first in order to add it as an ingredient to itself. *Dan T.* 18:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Gulyás festival

There's a goulash festival each year in Szolnok, Hungary. Altough it's not as popular as the Halászlé festival in Baja, I think we should include it, I just don't know where does it fit. Should I open a new section? What should be the section title? Here's the (half)-English website

They also mention an International Goulash Soup Club (Danish: Det Internationale Gulyásleves Selskab) in Denmark, but I have no information about them. --Hu:Totya (talk!) 15:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Goulash != American Chop Suey

Goulash is not the same thing as American Chop Suey! Nor is there any evidence that the terms are used interchangeably here in New England. In fact, growing up here, I'd say that chop suey is closer to a sloppy joe (without a bun) combined with macaroni. Chop suey is not even close to goulash - it's a pasta dish. Goulash isn't a pasta dish... and it never has macaroni, not even here in New England. Fuzzform (talk) 00:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Szekelygulyas

I think the "three kinds of meat" statement may be an oversimplification. The primary meat is pork. A stock for this dish can be made beforehand from ribs. A cut of smoked meat can be thrown in with this stew. One can use bacon drippings in the stew and serve with bacon or with sausage. These are all variations on the dish, not distinguishing features of it. The distinguishing features are the pork, sauerkraut, and cream/sour cream. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 00:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Nor is this dish goulash! --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 02:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Stacy. This three kinds of meat cames from the Gundel Károy, Hungarian cookbook, in English, the book says that Székelygulyas was made in the begining with 3 kinds of meat. So that was the source.

Warrington (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Origin

I mean.. isn't the history/origin section in this article missing at all? Where did it come from the dish? Is it related to the mongolian dishes known under a very similar name in china nowadays? what about the inclusion of american vegetables? people.. we need some history and sources here to work with! when were the first recipes quoted? why is the definite mongolonian influence noted? I hope this does not happen out of some strange nationalistic story telling whatever... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.177.72.157 (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

If you have any referenced information on this, please be bold and add it to the article. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 01:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

German Gulasch

I think that part should be changed. It's just i've never seen a Gulasch here in my entire life made with potatoes (in a restaurant most people would send it back) and i've also never seen anybody with a little knowlege of cooking or a decent restaurant put tomato of any kind in there. It's solely made of beef chunks, salt, pepper, onions, broth or water and a ton of paprika. Most of the times it's served with Spätzle or Semmelknödel (Bread Dumpliings). Often times it is also refined with sourcream or something similar right before serving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.250.229.197 (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't presume to speak for the whole country. Here in the east, Gulasch is served with Potatoes, noodles and, seldom, dumplings - eating it with Spätzle is virtually unheard of. Also, i never ever saw someone put sour cream in Gulasch before serving. Ever. --22:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

In the german version of Goulash you use the same amount of onions as you have meat. Oh, and by the way, beef is not normally used, most people use pig meat! In german we also know a kind of goulas we call "Szegediner" where you put Sauerkraut to the goulash. This one you eat with potatoes. All other goulash will be eaten with noodles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C50:100:5:3D39:1B9A:EC7E:F56A (talk) 19:24, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

I think he did not mean goulash that is served witha sidedish of potatoes, but the so called "kartoffelgulasch" (the german Wiki calls it Erdäpfelgulasch which points to an origin in southern germany or austria) which is a regional variant where the taters are already put in during the cooking of the dish and not just served on the plate and covered with the stew as gravy... still even THAT dish does exist. What's also wrong is the claim that there are only beef, venison and wild boar variants around... especially the pantries of large companies love to serve turkey goulash and I'm at least familiar with half-and-half beef and pork mixes as main ingredient. Not sure if there are other regional recipes using lamb or chicken but it's more than just the three named in the article. Oh also from the german wiki... horseflesh (austrian "Fiakergulasch" after the fancy coaches still used for tourists in Vienna) and sausage-based Gulasch variants. Definitely both real too. --109.91.41.67 (talk) 19:31, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Goulash and Hungarian nationalism

Goulash was a typical food of peasantry in Austrian-Hungarian empire. Segedinsky gulas or Kotlikovy gulas are typical Slovak foods also. Origin of goulash is probably on the territory of former Kingdom of Hungary, but article says this: "Goulash (plural: goulashes) is a Hungarian soup or stew of meat and vegetables (especially potatoes), seasoned with paprika and other spices." and source about Hungarian foods.. Its a clear nationalism. Its a central European food. For example this is a Slovak goulash: http://travel.spectator.sme.sk/articles/326/secrets_of_slovak_goulash In the 19th century during a period of romantic nationalism goulash become a symbol of Hungarians, but it was food of peasants: hungarians, slovaks, wallachs, ruthenians... Goulash as a symbol is a product of Hungarian nationalism in 19th century: http://books.google.com/books?id=orkjAQAAIAAJ&q=goulash+symbol+national&dq=goulash+symbol+national&hl=sk&ei=9TeTTuu0MYXO4QTOv4HLAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA Goulash is typical central European food: http://books.google.com/books?id=M4BeIVlFs6UC&pg=PA145&dq=goulash+slovak&hl=sk&ei=ZDqTToOtDMrl4QSGpLDHAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=goulash%20slovak&f=false Here is written that food is originaly from Austrian Hungarian empire: http://books.google.com/books?id=-ZKFokpPdMYC&pg=PA114&dq=goulash+austro-hungary&hl=sk&ei=7TqTTsviGMj04QSHx8XHAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

For example article about pizza: Pizza i/ˈpiːtsə/ (Italian: [ˈpittsa]) is an oven-baked, flat, disc-shaped bread typically topped with a tomato sauce, cheese and various toppings.

Is it normal to call food typical in cuisines of 10 countries Hungarian soup or stew? Its clear nationalism and appropriation of something common to one nation. --Samofi (talk) 18:45, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Here its written that its slavic food: http://books.google.com/books?id=6A9d-EMDayUC&pg=PA352&dq=goulash++slavic&hl=sk&ei=lz6TTpWOCK3a4QSmhp2VAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=goulash%20%20slavic&f=false About origin of word: http://books.google.com/books?id=Ef1hAAAAMAAJ&q=gul%C3%A1%C5%A1+gu%C4%BEa&dq=gul%C3%A1%C5%A1+gu%C4%BEa&hl=sk&ei=7z6TTuiJFYn54QSL-dWKAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA Goulash was derived from Slavic (Slovak) word guľa, it means "globe" and in historical slavic languages it meant a "mass of something" --Samofi (talk) 18:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Gulya is a Hungarian word. It means herd. It was a typical shepherd food. What kind of nationalism?Fakirbakir (talk) 19:10, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I was surprised by the above statements from Samofi. Especially that the word goulash comes from a Slovak word meaning "globe". After all, "globe" has nothing to do with goulash at all but I guess it's possible. However I propose a simple google test here before we get into this too much. Everyone can do a google search for "Hungarian goulash". And "Slovakian goulash". You can try "Slovak goulash" as well. Which has more hits and by how much? Is one of the two a bit of a fringe view? Hobartimus (talk) 19:34, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh boy, such detailed post about patent nonsense........ Samofi, I have to say that I've been following your contributions here or there for a while (to gather some ideas about your motives and stuff), but enough is enough. You obviously have no idea whatsoever about goulash and all the other dishes associated with it.

So first of all, the etymology of the word "goulash": to me it's pretty obvious that the English word has been adopted from Hungarian. This is pretty much supported by one of the (Slovak) sources you quote too: the original word MIGHT have come from some of the Slavic languages (though the Hungarian etymological dictionary -Tinta könyvkiadó Budapest, 2006, ISBN 963-7094-01-6 - states the contrary i.e. that the word's probably been adopted from a Caucasian language -namely Dargwa, in which gula means 'beef cattle, beef'-, which's MUCH more likely), but the final word of "gulyás" is definitely of Hungarian origin. You seem to brag about your knowledge of Hungarian at times, but obviously your knowledge of it is mediocre at best. Otherwise you'd know that the "-ás" suffix is used in Hungarian to express something that's made of/manufactured from/contains/has some of/is similar to the thing to which this suffix is connected to e.g. paprikás - peppered, furulyás - someone with a recorder, hálás - grateful i.e. someone with grace etc. Due to vowel harmony this suffix has several forms according to the rules of the vowel harmony: -as, -os, -es, -és e.g. farkas - wolf i.e. something with a tail, kásás - of mushy consistency, páros - even i.e. something with a pair etc. This alone pretty much confirms the word's Hungarian origin, even so, because the similar Slovak word you've mentioned means a completely different thing - the word guľa has ALWAYS meant spherical objects, like a sphere, marble and in addition an "F" grade in school (colloquially). So in short the word has never meant anything close to the Hungarian meaning of the word "gulya", no matter how much do you wish for that (the words pretty much share only the phonology, just like in case of liszt=flour/list=letter/leaf). As for the meaning of the word gulya it pretty much means 'beef cattle' in Hungarian and gulyás also the person who herds this cattle (i.e. someone with a "gulya"). So I'm sorry to disappoint you, but no matter how many badly researched recipe books and Slovak nationalist publications you'll cite, the origin of the word is without doubt Hungarian.

Furthermore there are numerous anomalies/inconsistencies within the usage of the word in Hungarian and throughout the rest of the world: what the rest of the world calls "goulash" is known in Hungarian as pörkölt (or perkelt in Slovak). In Hungarian the word gulyás refers to a kind of soup made from beef. As for the other dish which you refer to as segedínsky guláš (meaning "goulash from Szeged") in fact has pretty much never been called in Hungarian like that (szegedi gulyás, aside from the Hungarians in Slovakia who tend to use a lot of Slovak loanwords instead of the proper "Hungarian" forms), instead it's székelykáposzta ("Szekler cabbage"). Moreover the term kotlíkový guláš is also used in Hungarian (bográcsgulyás meaning "cauldron goulash") so chances are that the Slovak term's also the result of the direct translation of the Hungarian one. -- CoolKoon (talk) 20:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Wow so many comments. But you really did not understand what was a point of this section (btw its more Slovak sources which says that gulash was from Slavic "gula" taken to Hungarian and than from Hungarian taken to other languages - Its a significant minor theory). Guys I understand that its your national symbol and I almost fully agree with CoolKoon but I was surprised that goulash is called a "hungarian soup or stew". Italians did not say it about pizza: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza only origin is mentioned. This food is popular in all areas of former Habsburg empire so why to connect it exculsively with one nation? Its nationalism. You can write about Hungarian origin under a header but call a goulash which is traditional food in 10 countries a Hungarian soup or stew? I have no problem that goulash is of Hungarian origin - you can write all above into article. I have problem with connection of this food excusively with one nation. Its clear case of national exclusivism. You should read something about geographial indications: http://agritrade.cta.int/en/content/download/2026/54966/file/9ff273fdcd02bad5354991647de82f9c.pdf Goulash is not indicated as "Hungarian goulash" but its simple a "goulash" and most common repice for goulash is called "Hungarian goulash" (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22hungarian+goulash%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk - its almost all recipes or unscholar publications). Btw "goulash" has a 64 000 hits and "hungarian goulash" only 6270, less than 10% of english language sources (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk). Iam not trying to make a exclusively a slovak food from goulash but its not exclusively "hungarian soup or stew". Now do you understand whats the point? --Samofi (talk) 07:58, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you surprised? You've started arguing over something in a way that's just as ridiculous as asserting of "František List's" or "Belo Bartók's" Slovak origin. And pizza was a VERY bad example, as it's also mentioned in the article that "Pizza is one of the national foods of Italy and the Italian people." (and no, I haven't added that) and guess what, Hungarians DO consider it a national food wherever they are (not only in Hungary) regardless of the fact that for them it's a soup rather than a stew. As for its popularity obviously ever since the term "goulash" has been adopted "abroad" (i.e. outside of Habsburg monarchy) it became a popular dish in (presumably) many countries of the world, yet the dish itself and the word ARE of Hungarian origin and it IS a Hungarian national food. Still, don't you think it's a bit "interesting" (to say at least) that you assert that a dish with a Hungarian name is supposedly a Slovak national food as well? That's akin to calling lángos (lángoš/langoš in Slovak...) a Slovak national food as well. Or do you assert that as well? I mean I'm absolutely fine with calling traditional Slovak dishes Slovak specialties (e.g. bryndzové halušky, maybe placky, pirôžky/pirohy etc.), but -as I've told you already- enough is enough (and I can't say I'm biased either as I'm not too fond of pörkölt either). Also, you should stop citing non-etymologist sources on matters of etymology as they're completely irrelevant. It's clear that the word goulash is of Hungarian origin and the Hungarian word has probably nothing to do with the Slovak word of guľa (which has never meant ANYTHING that has something to do with cattle or beef, unlike in Hungarian). Besides, do you have a Slovak etymological dictionary? If yes, why don't you look up the date of the first documented use of the words guľa and guláš? I did the same for gulya and gulyás and my results have been 1138/1561 for gulya and 1886 for gulyás (as a dish, but there are also previous mentions of related words such as gulyáshús/1787, gulyásétel/1826, gulyástokány/1838-1845; the original/older meaning of the word -beef cattle herder- has been mentioned as early as 1587,1588). -- CoolKoon (talk) 13:03, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Look I agree that its Hungarian national food. Slovak national food are bryndzove halusky, but I would never used a term "Slovak bryndzove halusky". What if any other nation or country eats this food? But goulash is a stew or soup. Its national food in Hungary. And traditional food in other countries. This food is eating here from a time of Hungarian Kingdom. Slovakia is successor state of Czecho-Slovakia and Czecho-Slovakia is successor state of Austria-Hungary after Trianon. Our history is connetcted with Hungarian and goulash is traditional food in Slovakia from the times of kingdom. About List I have read publication from Demko and his origin from grandmother side was Slovak. I have found a neutral source which speaks about Barbara Schlesak from Rusovce. (http://books.google.com/books?id=lCw4cxHmpgYC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=franz+liszt+barbara+schlesak&source=bl&ots=Y9D8BaphYs&sig=4Pt8dqh4potSqU9Hdh9yGjkJnYE&hl=sk&ei=w66UTvKUN8TN4QSQmJCNCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=barbara%20schlesak&f=false). In the town were a significant slovak minority, than they lived in malacky - in that time slovak town with jewish minority. And her surname is of Slavic origin: "Slezák". Maybe its un-significant minor theory about List, but significant minort theory about origin of his family. About Bartok I dont remeber.. Probably it was my original research because he collected a Slovak songs too... --Samofi (talk) 21:13, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, in Hungary nobody actually calls it "Hungarian Goulash" (magyar gulyás), that's a custom that's been pretty much adopted only abroad (see maďarksý guláš or Ungarische Goulash), just like in case of a type of salami (which's téliszalámi -"winter salami"- in Hungarian, but maďarský/á salám/a in Slovak and Czech). In Hungary it's either only goulash (gulyás) or beef goulash (marhagulyás). Even other stuff topped with "Hungarianish" ingredients (e.g. pizza) is called in fact Hungarianish (magyaros). Besides, obviously there's complete chaos in the goulash terminology in Hungary as well (as noted by e.g. this Hungarian article). But nevertheless the term "Hungarian goulash" IS used abroad (generally by non-Hungarians, even in Slovakia), so including that in the article is not nationalism, but simply stating the obvious.

And regarding Liszt, your conclusions are wrong I'm afraid. Rusovce (AKA Oroszvár) was up until 1947 in Hungary with a predominantly Hungarian population. The Hungarian dominance remained up until the 60s/70s, but more than 15% of the population is still constituted by Hungarians. Sure, the Schlesak family MIGHT've been Slovak, but there's absolutely ZERO evidence for that. The spelling of the name speaks more about a formerly Hungarian family which's in the process of germanization. Sure, the name "Slezák" DOES speak about the family's (probably) Czech origin, but the German spelling confirms the fact that the leading "s" has been pronounced as "sh" (typical for Hungarian) instead of "s". Besides, I also had a classmate with the name of Slezák, whose both parents were Hungarian, so the name alone doesn't prove anything. Besides, the source you've quoted doesn't say anything about the maternal side of the family nor the fact that Liszt's mother lived in Malacky.

Last but not least: I didn't say that you've asserted Bartók's Slovak origin, but I know that I've seen such twisted theories on some of the Slovak nationalistic sites (e.g. beo.sk IIRC). So I've mentioned it here because to me it's just as absurd as talks about Liszt's "Slovak" origin (I can't dispute his German roots though, especially because he spoke German much better than Hungarian) or talks about Balassi's "Slovak" poetry. -- CoolKoon (talk) 13:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

and about google searchies - goulash food "country":

hungary: 1680 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash+is+hungarian%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=goulash+food+hungary&pbx=1&oq=goulash+food+hungary&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=118103l118789l7l118898l7l6l0l0l0l0l156l531l0.4l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ca7f4cea4f4eb571&biw=1680&bih=839

austria: 1670 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash+is+hungarian%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=goulash+food+austria&pbx=1&oq=goulash+food+austria&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=11746l12667l6l12729l7l7l0l0l0l0l250l969l0.3.2l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ca7f4cea4f4eb571&biw=1680&bih=839

slovakia: 352 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash+is+hungarian%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=goulash+food+slovakia&pbx=1&oq=goulash+food+slovakia&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=16614l17596l8l17643l8l1l6l0l0l1l140l140l0.1l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ca7f4cea4f4eb571&biw=1680&bih=839

"czech republic": 224 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash+is+hungarian%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=goulash+food+%22czech+republic%22&pbx=1&oq=goulash+food+%22czech+republic%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=23898l25739l19l25817l14l11l0l0l0l5l203l1392l2.7.1l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ca7f4cea4f4eb571&biw=1680&bih=839

"People's republic of china": 6 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22goulash+is+hungarian%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=goulash+food+%22People's+republic+of+china%22&pbx=1&oq=goulash+food+%22People's+republic+of+china%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=4805l6973l14l7691l2l2l0l0l0l0l203l359l0.1.1l2l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ca7f4cea4f4eb571&biw=1680&bih=839

Its clear indication that goulash is food from a central european region and not exclusively hungarian. --Samofi (talk) 08:12, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

You should be very careful when you use Google search results in an argument. For example "goulash food china" [1] gave much more hits (3330) than "goulash food slovakia" [2] (724). Does it prove anything? Hardly... Koertefa (talk) 02:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

China is also the name of food. And stop with Wikihounding. Name of the country is "People's republic of china" and its only 6 hits. Iam careful with google searches, you shlould be too. --Samofi (talk) 05:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

You are kidding, aren't you? Why should, for example, a cookbook use the full official name of the country when it speaks about a food instead of simply "China"? And, by the way, the official name of Slovakia is "Slovak Republic"... Koertefa (talk) 08:27, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I have some terrible news for you: china is NOT a type of food. That's Chinese at best. Also if you take a look at China's disambiguation page, you'll see that "china" is either a type of dishware, ceramic or porcelain. And using google when arguing about semantics (hell even arguing about semantics) is generally a bad idea. -- CoolKoon (talk) 13:57, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

My idea about the entry of the article:

Goulash (plural: goulashes) is a soup or stew of meat and vegetables (especially potatoes), seasoned with paprika and other spices.[1] Goulash is Hungary's unofficial national dish and one of the staple foods.[3]. Goulash is also a traditional meal in Austria, Czech republic, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, north Croatia and the north-eastern Italian region of Friuli Venezia Giulia.

Origin The name originates from the Hungarian gulyás [ˈɡujaːʃ] ( listen). The gulya word means 'herd' in Hungarian, gulyás 'neat-herd'.[2][3] + informations from coolkoon

... --Samofi (talk) 08:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I do not agree with this version. The article about Strapačky states that it is a Slovak disk. However, it is also popular in Hungary (and called "sztrapacska"). Do you also suggest that we should delete from that article that Strapačky is a Slovak dish just because it is also popular in countries neighboring Slovakia? Koertefa (talk) 08:50, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, food is of Slovak origin (western and central slovakia [4]) and Iam happy that Hungarian people like it and it is popular outside of Slovakia. Lol, change it, no problem.. --Samofi (talk) 13:00, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I've changed the intro according to Pizza article. "Hungarian soup" sounds strange(Dotonj talk) 09:22, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Gulyas is originally a soup.Fakirbakir (talk) 09:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I did dot deny that Dotonj (talk) 09:43, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Gulyas is originally a Hungarian soup. There was no consensus. See Koertefa's or Coolkoon's contributions.Fakirbakir (talk) 09:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Gulyas originates in Hungary. The current version does not suggest something else Dotonj (talk) 09:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Though, I prefer the original one, I can also accept the version suggested by user Dotonj, as long as it clearly states that gulyas originates in Hungary and it mentions the etymology of the word (this latter one could be outside of the lead). It should also be checked that this style is common in other articles about national foods. The example of pizza suggests that it is, but I will check others, as well. Koertefa (talk) 08:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Goulash in Kosovo and Albania???

I can just say big - LOL — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.95.130 (talk) 12:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Hungarian Gulyásleves is one type of goulash, so I propose merging Gulyásleves to this article under section Goulash#In Hungary. Best, 195.212.29.185 (talk) 09:33, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

• Better not. It might only complicate things. There is enough confusion already about soup or not soup. Hafspajen (talk) 13:07, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hungary#Paprikas, Paprikáš, Paprikaš etc

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hungary#Paprikas, Paprikáš, Paprikaš etc. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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• Commercial Gulaschsuppe ALDI Germany 2016.jpg

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Goulash in Slovakia

I read the discussion above, from some years ago, and I both agree and disagree with both stances: goulash was not born in modern-day Hungary, but in the Kingdom of Hungary of which Slovakia was one the main parts (Upper Hungary). They both share much of their cuisines and the goulash in Slovakia has for sure much more in common with Hungarian one, including the variety of ingredients and preparations, than with Czech goulash (that is more like the stew you can find in the former Austrian half of the Empire). Before proceeding and triggering other discussions, I would then suggest here my proposal: including a separate section for Slovakia, between Hungary and "Rest of the World"; or, at least, put Slovakia apart and as first of the other countries (regardless of the alphabetical order). Filippo83 (talk) 21:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Gulasch = not good

I hate Gulasch. And I am german. Don't eat it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.184.199.26 (talk) 17:46, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Lenten Food?

A recent edit added the category 'Lenten Food'. I'm loathe to revert it because that editor is a Christianity expert but a rich beef stew would seem to be the opposite of 'fasting' food. The word 'Lenten' does not appear anywhere in the article. Clarification please. OrewaTel (talk) 09:04, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

• In Ethiopia, goulash is invariably made with with fish and so is a popular food during Lent and other fasting seasons.--Varavour (talk) 04:25, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

A fish dish is very different from a beef stew. I suggest that Ethiopian goulash is actually a different dish that has the same name. It is quite common for cuisines to steal the name of a foreign foodstuff and apply it to one of their own meals.OrewaTel (talk) 22:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

On what basis do you assert that goulash is exclusively made from beef? I have seen goulash made from venison, veal, pork, and even with no meat at all. Fish can be within the bounds what is deemed "goulash".--Varavour (talk) 21:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Goulash is essentially a beef stew made by gulyás but that does not mean that it is exclusively beef. Austrians naturally made a variant based on pork. Veal is only young beef and venison is another red meat. The problem comes when you keep changing things. How far can you go before you have a different meal. I suggest that when you leave out the meat or leave out the paprika then you won't have an authentic goulash. OrewaTel (talk) 02:22, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

The Origin of the Name Could be Turkish

The origin of the dish may be traced back to the influence of the Ottomans in Hungary. The ingredients cumin, pepper, garlic in strong admixture in dishes was very typical for Turkish dishes. The era in which the dish was created overlaps with the Ottoman invasion of Hungary and the time of the Turkish wars. Linguistically, the word only makes sense in Turkish, as it is pronounced like Turkish "Kulashi" which means no less than subjects ("Kul") meal ("Ashi"). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1205:5016:2210:395D:AA0C:DB63:B6FA (talk) 09:51, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Whilst this may be true, it requires a citation. OrewaTel (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

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Hungarian Varieties

There is a subsection Goulash varieties in Hungary that is written as a recipe list in contradiction to Wikipedia is not a text book. Whilst it is interesting, I'm not sure whether it is notable. Either it should be deleted or it should be rewritten as descriptive list rather than a How To manual. Advice please. OrewaTel (talk) 21:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)