Talk:Ariel (moon)

Comments

Isn't Ariel (which was discovered at the same time as Umbriel) named after the Ariel in Pope's Rape of the Lock rather than the one in The Tempest? john k 21:37, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I think you're right about this, actually - well spotted. The Singing Badger 13:36, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

According to The Royal Shakespeare Company, this is pronounced [AIR-ee-el]. According to the OED, the last vowel is a schwa, at least as the name of the gazelle. kwami

We certainly cannot say exactly how much methane is contained in Ariel, as we have no idea whether there is actually any methane in the moon. CO2 is just as likely, and the observation of surface CO2 supports this idea.

Fixed Surface Area (previosly was miscalculated to approx 4 times its actual value)

second furthest

Second furthest? What does that mean exactly? The lead says second closest, the FA says second closest. Second futhest implies their is only one further away. Arzel (talk) 00:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

This has been fixed but the two sections below have not. Mni9791 (talk) 01:46, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Need source

"Ariel is named after the leading sylph in Pope's poem The Rape of the Lock."

Uncited information for some reason in the FA. Ariel is Belinda’s guardian sylph, who oversees an army of invisible protective deities in The Rape of the Lock.This is a reliable source: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/18/us/earth-tradition-holds-sway-for-naming-heavenly-orbits.html Mni9791 (talk) 01:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Can someone address the above???? Mni9791 (talk) 12:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

The source you cite does not make the claim you argue. However, I can change it to "a sylph". Serendi^podous 12:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Fine. How about this book as a source, Cosmic Challenge: The Ultimate Observing List for Amateurs by Philip S. Harrington. The source says verbatim: "four major moons of Uranus.... Ariel was the leading sylph in Alexander Pope's Rape of the Lock and a spirit who serves Prospero in Shakespeare's The Tempest. (Look at the source yourself here: [1]) Mni9791 (talk) 02:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. Serendi^podous 08:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Orbit Vs Orbital Plane

"...Ariel orbits and rotates in the equatorial plane of Uranus, which is almost perpendicular to the orbit of Uranus, granting..."

: should it be "perpendicular to the orbital plane of Uranus" instead of just "orbit"? (and for other similar references to orbital plane, too.)

Prabhakar (talk) 01:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Incomplete origin of name

Given that both Pope's and Shakespeare's characters called Ariel are named for Ariel (angel), it seems remiss to describe the origins of the name without reference to this figure. Suggest it is named for a sky spirit in Alexander Pope's The Rape of the Lock and Shakespeare's The Tempest, and ultimately to an angel in Judeo-Christian mysticism. Kevin McE (talk) 06:17, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Dunno. We'd need a reference stating that both Pope and Shakespeare deliberately drew the name from the angel. It may simply be that the angel's name entered folklore and became the name for a sky spirit, or even that the sky spirit's name evolved to sound like the angel's. Serendi^podous 07:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Are you really suggesting that Shakespeare happened to pick a name out of thin air that happened to be identical to that used in the Judaeo Christian mystical tradition in which he was thoroughly versed, and gave the character with that name an almost identical role to its predecessor, without that having been an influence. We may as well refuse to acknowledge that the story of MacBeth had anything to do with the Scottish king of that name because we don't have contemporary reliable sources that prove that this is who the Bard was thinking about. Kevin McE (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm suggesting nothing. You are making a point. That point must be sourced. Wikipedians are not historians. We only report what other people say. Serendi^podous 20:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

(mis)pronunciation of the name

The pronunciation in Note 1 does not match the pronunciation referenced in Reference 1 (Merriam-Webster), and the pronunciation in the first line of the article matches neither the actual dictionary (see Reference 1), nor the mispronunciation given in Note 1. Really, Note 1 is superfluous and could be deleted, otherwise it should be corrected. The main pronunciation should also be corrected. It would seem that the dictionary should rule here, as it's a reliable reference and can be cited. 139.68.134.1 (talk) 15:05, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Mirriam Webster pronounces it as it is pronounced here. It even has a voice recording saying it as "AIR-ee-ul". I don't see what your issue is. Yes, the angel's name is pronounced "AR-ee-ell" but it's not the name of a Hebrew Angel, it's the name of a spirit of the Air. Hence the pun. Serendi^podous 17:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The original writer is correct. The Merriam-Webster entry for the word Ariel (in the Shakespearean sense) shows the first syllable as the sound of "a" as in "ash" (commonly called the "short a"). An alternate pronunciation is given, with the first syllable "e" as in "bet" (the "short e"). The "Note 1" dictionary pronunciation shows the "long a" ("ā" with a macron), which is the "long a" as in "ace". That vowel is not what's listed in the cited dictionary.

The IPA pronunciation shown at the beginning of the article shows TWO vowels before the "r", the "short e" and the "schwa" [ɛə]. The [ɛ] alone, without the [ə], matches the alternate pronunciation in the dictionary. The primary pronunciation from the dictionary is [æ], the secondary pronunciation is [ɛ], and neither the IPA [ɛə] at the beginning of the article, nor the "dictionary" "ā" from Note 1 matches either pronunciation from the cited reference, Reference 1, m-w.com. 4.154.248.169 (talk) 00:50, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Well that is odd because the recorded voice pronounces it as in the article. Serendi^podous 04:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Wrong. The Merriam-Webster pronunciation symbols and the Merriam-Webster recorded pronunciation match each other. They both indicate /æ/ as the initial vowel. The Wikipedia article's Note 1 and the main entry pronunciation don't even match each other, nor does either of them match the Merriam-Webster reference. The initial vowel is /æ/, and there is only one vowel befor the /r/. The cited reference is quite clear on this. The article is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.255.155 (talk) 11:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Be civil. I don't really care how this page is changed as long as it makes clear that "Ariel" is pronounced like "areal". Serendi^podous 10:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

The reference cited, Merriam-Webster's online dictionary (M-W), gives the pronunciation as "\a′-rē-əl\" in M-W's symbology. According to M-W's pronunciation key and Wikipedia's reference table, that corresponds with /'æ-ri-əl/ in Wikipedia-standard IPA for English. So that's what should be in the article. There is no reason compare it to any other word, especially without properly citing a reference. What matters is that the information in the Wikipedia article is supported by the pronunciation in the cited reference work; M-W in this case.

The U.S. Dictionary respelling is unnecessary and locale-centric, so it is not needed, but if it is given, it should also match the pronunciation given in the cited reference. The U.S. dictionary equivalent of the M-W pronunciation is /ă′-rē-əl/.

At present, neither the article's main IPA pronunciation, nor the U.S. dictionary pronunction in Note 1, reflects the information in the cited reference work, nor do the two pronunciations even match each other. This does not meet Wikipedia standards. The entries will be edited to match the informaiton in the cited reference work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.252.83 (talk) 12:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Today's FA

I wanted to say congrats to everyone who worked on this page for getting this moon to be Today's Featured Article! (I suppose you could say that you editors mooned the Main Page. :-) ) Wabbott9 Tell me about it.... 18:20, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

lol! Thanks. As a rule I don't push for FAs to be put on the main page, but I'm always grateful if it means a nice comment like that. :) Serendi^podous 18:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Ambiguity

On 26 July 2006, the Hubble Space Telescope captured a rare transit made by Ariel across the face of Uranus, during which the satellite cast a shadow that could be seen on the Uranian cloud tops.

What satellite is the article talking about? Of course, we are talking about the moon casting a shadow on Uranus. But the sentence is poorly worded. Mni9791 (talk) 16:46, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

If we used "it", then there would be confusion as to whether it was Ariel or Uranus. The only other option is to use the word "Ariel" twice. Serendi^podous 18:30, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the wording is ambiguous, as there are two satellites (Hubble and Ariel) mentioned in the same sentence, and "the satellite" does not specify one or the other. "Ariel" could certainly be used twice; why is that even questioned? It would be clear. It would be concise and accurate. Perfectly appropriate for an encyclopedia. Or, "moon" could be used instead of "satellite". As it stands, it's poorly written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.252.83 (talk) 12:29, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

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