Talk:Biwa

Recent Edits

I recently made several large edits to the main page, mostly the biwa history section and a few small edits within other sections. Unfortunately I wasn't signed in at the time so the edits will appear to be anonymous, but I have based the information on essays written by prominent biwa players and my own experience as a licensed player. If you have any issues with the edits, please discuss them here.--Obakedake (talk) 02:31, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Change of title picture?

Looking at this page, the main/title picture at top of the article is of the gogen biwa from Nara, which is, as described in the article, a one-of-a-kind instrument. I have seen a few reproductions personally, but they are exceedingly rare (perhaps a few dozen in the world?), and far from a representative biwa. I'd suggest changing the main picture to a more common biwa, perhaps a Satsuma or Chikuzen. If I could obtain a copyright-free photograph of a typical biwa, would there be an objection to this change?Obakedake (talk) 04:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The current title picture is of a Tang Dynasty pipa, why is it being used for the biwa? --158.143.185.119 (talk) 10:37, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge with pipa?

Pipa and biwa seem to be essentially the same instrument - the two names are just different ways to pronounce the same word. In fact, the title image on this page depicts a "Tang dynasty pipa". Are there any essential differences between a pipa and a biwa to warrant separate articles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinbios (talk • contribs) 01:46, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

They are related but completely different instruments. Completely different sound, shape, contruction, playing style (biwas use a plectrum, pipas don't), number of frets (the pipa has dozens more than the biwa), etc. They are different enough to warrent seperate articles. An analogy would be the difference between a koto and a guqin, or perhaps a violin and a mandolin. --202.216.95.3 (talk) 06:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC)Obakedake

I agree with the OP. It's not different enough not to just put a "pipa in Japan" section on the Pipa page. The instrument was brought to Japan from China through korea in the Tang Dynasty, the first biwas were Tang pipas and evolved from there not separately. The fact that the name is exactly the same means its more like having two articles for To-may-toes and To-maa-toes because any tomato is just a variant thereof not some totally unique thing. Wiki already did this with the erhu and niko just fyi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.213.212 (talk) 20:24, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with any proposal to merge biwa and pipa. They are two different instruments, in two different cultures, with different construction, playing styles, musical functions, and vastly different repertoire.

FYI, Wikipedia currently supports separate articles for "Guitar"; "Acoustic guitar"; "Electric guitar"; "Classical guitar"; "Flamenco guitar"; "Multi-neck guitar"; and a half-dozen others (at least) -- all of which, it could be argued, are just minor variations on "guitar".

Biwa and pipa deserve separate articles.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:50, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Languages

Why is it that the Japanese 琵琶 page links to the English one in the "Languages" box, but not the other way around? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.161.246 (talk) 22:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

What's heikyoko?

It's mentioned several times in the article, but never explained... -- megA (talk) 17:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Heikyoku (note spelling) is a Japanese traditional semi-classical music originating in the 13th century. It's similar in concept to the the troubadour music of medieval Europe.

I've added an explanatory footnote to the first occurance of the term in the article.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:00, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

tunings

I suppose the Biwa in Kwaidan is tuned EBea (although my disc is NTSC it's still nearly a semitone higher than that). But what about fret spacings? I think it would be useful to the discussion to explain how such a fretboard generates the pentatonic scales and in which modes.

Evolved? or Devolved?

From the section "History":

The biwa came to Japan in the 7th century and it was evolved from the Chinese instrument pipa,...

The pipa has 26 frets, is played in virtuostic fashion with fingerpicks on all five fingers, and has had full concertos composed and performed for it, using both western orchestra and traditional Chinese plectrum orchestra accompaniments.

The biwa has 4, or occasionally 5 frets, is played in minimalist fashion with a single "pick" the size of a small frying pan, and is used primarily as a drone behind other gagaku instruments, or as an accompaniment for voice in folk music.

All in all, both the biwa as an instrument, and biwa playing style and musical function are far cruder and more limited in scope than the pipa and its tradition.

This doesn't really seem to meet the criteria for an "evolution" of the earlier Chinese instrument, but rather a regression to a more primitive form. To say biwa 'evolved' from the pipa is rather like saying the mountain dulcimer 'evolved' from the guitar or the archlute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:43, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Re: Evolved? or Devolved?

The biwa is not derived from modern Chinese pipa but from an early form of that instrument from the Tang dynasty. If you look at chinese paintings from that time you may notice people playing what looks like a gaku-biwa or less commonly gogen-biwa but no modern pipa.

It was in later eras that both chinese and japanese have started modernizing the pipa. However while the chinese have abandoned the triangular plectrum in favor of fingerpicks, removed moonholes, added more frets, started holding it vertically rather than horizontally and eventually replaced silk strings with metal ones, japanese kept all of these features in their biwa. (except for vertical playing position as some biwas are played vertically while others horizontally)

Instead they raised the frets and made them wider allowing for pitch-bending and producing a sitar-like buzzing sound. They also introduced thechniques like hitting the biwa's soundbox with plectrums's angles or rubbing the strings with it's base.

So in consclusion the biwa did not "evolve" directly from modern pipa, rather they only share a common ancestor. --83.29.77.152 (talk) 11:45, 4 June 2017 (UTC)