Talk:Rickets

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 10 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Samanthajones101 (article contribs).

Moved to Osteomalacia

As you may know, the correct term for this condition is known as 'Osteomalacia. Several dictionary definitions refer to it as "Osteomalacia within Children" - but the illness is very unlikely to develop in adults because as you know, it is during growth, so may be a problem within people who have diseases which inhibit or elongate such growth periods. As you know, the wikipedia is about facts, and- through my experience, "Rickets" refers to an analogy to describe the condition; as you know, rickets are also the name of bolts used within large machinery, which, bend after years of pressure through steam, or etc.

If you wish to discuss this further, i am more than willing to talk to anyone concerned. Thank you for your concern. Spum 12:13, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Dude, I think you may be thinking of rivets, not rickets. But I agree that they should be (remain) separate. Mauvila 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Vit D

how widespread is vitamin D supplementation in milk? I know the US does it—who else? Vicki Rosenzweig

Don't remember reading anything about it in the UK. I think our milk is generally just pasteurised. This isn't definitive, though, it's just a "well, if it happens, it's news to me." --AW

A number of other products are fortified with vitamin D, so stating 'not consuming fortified milk' to be at risk is not necessarily true. The lactose intolerant can drink a non-dairy beverage, for instance. I added a link to the article on vitamin D in the top section, since it has already has detailed & well-cited info about sources of vitamin D. I don't recall any rule for multiple links to the same wikipedia article, but I avoided linking from elsewhere in this article Hexalm (talk) 03:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Milk isn't vitamin D fortified in Australia either. I removed 'not drinking milk' as a risk factor, because this would only apply in the US and other countries where milk is fortified. This needs to be mentioned if it's put back in.Txupitzin (talk) 10:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC) Brain meltdown: I added "Any child whose diet does not contain enough vitamin D or calcium" (I forgot about calcium, I've got vitamin D on the brain".Txupitzin (talk) 10:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

One of the Dictionary.com entries says that mental development may be premature? lysdexia 14:29, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have been going through the list of orthopaedic conditions listed as stubs and suggesting this template for Orthopaedic Conditions (see Talk:Orthopedic surgery)
Name
Definition
Synonyms
Incidence
Pathogenesis and predisposing factors
Pathology
Stages
Classification
Natural History/Untreated Prognosis
Clinical Features
Investigation
Non-Operative Treatment
Risks of Non-Operative Treatment
Prognosis following Non-Operative Treatment
Operative Treatment (Note that each operations should have its own wiki entry)
Risks of Operative Treatment
Prognosis Post Operation
Complications
Management
Prevention
History
--Mylesclough 06:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I see Osteomalacia redirects to this page. I think it should (eventually) have a page to itself as it does occur in adults. --Mylesclough 00:06, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Congenital rickets

I would like to create a separate article about Congenital Rickets, which is particularly interesting in connection with child abuse. For instance referring to some articles like Rickets vs. Abuse. Algernon71 (talk) 00:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merge

• STRONG OPPOSE. The conditions are treated by different health care providers and impact different populations. If you feel the articles are so closely tied it has to be recorded somewhere very clearly-- write a disambig like article called Vitamin D deficiency. In any case, gigantism and acromegaly have separate articles and arguably they have the same relationship as rickets and osteomalacia-- except it is an excess of something (growth hormone) as opposed to a deficiency. Nephron  T|C 07:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Thanks for your vigorous input. I put the proposed merge there because the two articles seem to blur the distinction between the "rickets" and "osteomalacia", so I honestly wasn't sure if they were the same thing or not. I sought guidance from Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine and Wikipedia:WikiProject Clinical medicine because of this. If these two conditions are really different, the articles should make that clearer for non-doctors. I proposed the merge and approached the medicine-related WikiProjects because I don't have the necessary background to sort this out myself. Mike Dillon 07:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - P.S. the Gigantism article doesn't even mention Acromegaly (and that latter barely mentions the former near the bottom of the article). These things may be obvious to the medically trained, but Wikipedia a general-purpose encyclopedia and should at least try to make all topics as approachable as reasonably possible. Mike Dillon 07:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like it would be good if someone created a page called growth hormone excess--to clarify the relationship between acromegaly and gigantism. More generally, it might be interesting to have a couple of solid articles about hormone imbalance and subarticles about hormone deficiency and hormone excess that discuss how the disregulation of hormones-- (hyper- & hypo- function) can be used to classify diseases. The article would be lists more than anything else I think-- but I think that would provide a good overview for someone that doesn't deal with the stuff on a frequent basis. Related to the more immediate discussion-- there is a page called Vitamin deficiency (and a page called vitamin poisoning, which could in first approximation be redirected to a vitamin excess article). The relationship between rickets and osteomalacia is vitamin deficiency-- specifically vitamin D. What seems to be missing a series of links that make the relationships clear and/or categories and/or a nice template. Nephron  T|C 08:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that some more structure is needed for the endocrine topics. But I'm thinking there might be a better name for the blanket article than "hormone imbalance" since endocrine disorders can be caused by things other than inappropriate hormone levels (eg, hormone insensitivity). What about just endocrine disorder (currently a redirect to endocrinology)? --David Iberri (talk) 07:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Agree-- endocrine disorder (or perhaps endocrine disorders) should be the name. I think the "Diseases" section of endocrinology could be split-out into a different article to start us on that way. I'm going to propose that there... Nephron  T|C 00:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

• Support. I would call the article Osteomalacia and Rickets. The Oxford Textbook of Medicine does this. Here a quote Osteomalacia is the condition that results from a lack of vitamin D or a disturbance of its metabolism; in the growing skeleton it is referred to as rickets, and the terms are often used interchangeably. Very rarely, severe calcium deficiency can lead to rickets. Inherited hypophosphataemia and a number of other renal tubular disorders may also cause rickets without clear evidence of abnormal vitamin D metabolism. In the merged article effects the differential effects of the causes of osteomalacia on bone metatabolism in the adult and the child could be discussed. I would merge the articles because the terms are used interchangeably by many clinicians--Savisha 14:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
• Support - in essence the same disease; the image used is even the same. Anthonycfc ^{[T • C]} 17:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
• Opposed - rickets is a type of osteomalacia, but the characteristics are fairly unique simply due to the fact that the bones are growing. Thus, while the pathogenesis may be the same as other osteomalacias, the effects are different. Also different are the causes, treatments, epidemiologies, etymologies, etc. Moreover, I think the articles should remain separate because articles on Wikipedia are expected to grow, not shrink, and there will be a lot more different content for both in the coming years. Mauvila 23:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment - Here is a quote from Kumar & Clark 'Clinical Medicine' (Sixth Edition) (ISBN 0-7020-2763-4), which is a bit of a bible for medical students. "Rickets (in children) and osteomalacia (in adults) result from inadequate mineralization of bone matrix (osteoid). They are usually caused by a defect in vitamin D availability or metabolism." Dunno if this helps, but I thought I'd share :). Cheekyal 13:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Nautical

Was this disease a problem historically on sailing vessels? -Falcon8765 (talk) 08:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the ages would be wrong -- rickets is a developmental disease (from the discussion above, its adult counterpart is osteomalacia). Of besetting nutritional deficiencies on sailing vessels, the most celebrated is scurvy -- vitamin C deficiency. ExOttoyuhr (talk) 19:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

You may be thinking of scurvy which is caused by a deficiency of vitamin C. Jemmers6 (talk) 02:22, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

Is there any source of the statement "The Greek derived word "rachitis" (ραχίτις, meaning "inflammation of the spine") was later adopted as the scientific term for rickets, due chiefly to the words' similarity in sound."? I can accept that the vulgar name is older than the medical term, but the idea that 'rachitis' was chosen to sound similar to 'rickets' seems pretty suspect. 95.117.222.116 (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

History

???--Pawyilee (talk) 12:55, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

First mention: Roman physician Soranus, or Greek Soranus of Ephesus? --Pawyilee (talk) 14:30, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Introduction

The introduction to the article seems wrong, half-quoting an article as definition of the disease, but the cited article appears to deal with specific cases of the disease and speaks of rickets in general as something already known. Can someone with the adequate medical knowledge write a proper introduction in appropriate style? Asuranceturix 14:10, 6 November 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asuranceturix (talk • contribs)

Trolls & Sunlight

Hyopercalcification fits the Norse Legends that Trolls would turn into stone if they stayed out in the sunlight.101.171.213.67 (talk) 07:01, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

How much sun?

How much sun (hours/day) do we need? 71.139.165.172 (talk) 08:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

how much? अाा (talk) 06:24, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Global Consensus Recommendations on Prevention and Management of Nutritional Rickets

doi:10.1210/jc.2015-2175 JFW | T@lk 17:59, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Etymology again

As noted above, the etymology seems suspect. It gives an origin in an Old English word despite the fact that it only became known in the 17th century (Old English was till 1150). A derivation from Rachitis seemw much more likely. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 11:41, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

If you have better sources please update. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Strontium

In the table that accompanies Mineral (nutrient)#Elements considered possibly essential but not confirmed, excess Strontium is identified as "Rachitogenic", i.e. causing rickets. I've cut and pasted most of that remark, with reference, into Rickets. GeeBee60 (talk) 16:45, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Dubious hypothosis

I have cut this crank sentence with its two sketchy citations.

The vitamin D natural selection hypothesis suggests that vitamin D production from sunlight is a selective force for human skin color variation.

References

GeeBee60 (talk) 18:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

This does not seem dubious at all and calling it a crank sentence means you have some facts or else you are using your opinion to counter research. Rickets leads to narrowing of the pelvic canal and prevents live childbirth. The poleward diaspora from equatorial regions would have been hampered if dark skin resulted on poor childbearing possibilities. Those tribes with lighter skin would have had more success migrating towards the poles.

I would like this information returned. If there are no dietary sources of Vitamin-D humans are TOTALLY reliant on the solar supply.

Idyllic press (talk) 08:24, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Magnesium-dependent vitamin-D-resistant rickets

I came across a mention of "magnesium-dependent vitamin-D-resistant rickets" while browsing PubMed. I wonder if this is a real thing. Maybe it's worth a mention in the article. I'm not sure. ---CopperKettle 18:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

There is a large and growing body of evidence that Magnesium is essential in Vitamin-D metabolism so this should be added in when suitable references are found.

Idyllic press (talk) 08:27, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Breastmilk is a source if mothers Vitamin-D levels are replete.

I have seen credible medical research papers that evaluate the amount of Vitamin-D in breast-milk and breastfed infants.

It was determined that breast-milk was a perfectly adequate source of infant Vitamin-D if the mothers Vitamin-D levels were at a natural level. In the one paper I think the level was around 114nmol/l (45.6ng/ml) and was used as one of the determinants of what should be a natural blood concentration (cannot find this link just now so the number is from memory). Another was investigating the health of children and came to the conclusion that supplementation of 160ug (6400IU) per day raised the blood levels of the mothers to around 125nmol/l (50ng/ml) and provided what the child needed.

So the blanket statement that breastfed infants need supplementation is proven false and should be corrected. The assumption is obviously wrong as Viramin-D supplements are a recent invention in human society and advanced rickets causes pelvic deformation to the point of making childbirth impossible. In fact this information is vital to understanding the error in Vitamin-D reporting. When the blood levels are natural the rest of the discussion becomes rational instead of trying to find ever more interesting ways to justify low supplementation doses that are not enough to generate rational trial results.

Another interesting paper (perhaps one of these below) mentioned that results with Vitamin-D2 were minor but results using Vitamin-D3 supplementation were clear so the difference should be noted, there is controversy on this still.

• Hollis BW, Wagner CL 2004 Vitamin D requirements during lactation:

high-dose maternal supplementation as therapy to prevent hypovitaminosis D for both the mother and the nursing infant. Am J Clin Nutr 80:1752S–1758S

• https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/136/4/625.full.pdf

• Maternal Versus Infant Vitamin D Supplementation During Lactation: A Randomized Controlled Trial

Bruce W. Hollis, Carol L. Wagner, Cynthia R. Howard, Myla Ebeling, Judy R. Shary, Pamela G. Smith, Sarah N. Taylor, Kristen Morella, Ruth A. Lawrence and Thomas C. Hulsey

• doi: 10.3945/ajcn.114.106385

Maternal vitamin D3 supplementation at 50 mg/d protects against low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D in infants at 8 wk of age: a randomized controlled trial of 3 doses of vitamin D beginning in gestation and continued in lactation Kaitlin M March, Nancy N Chen, Crystal D Karakochuk, Antonia W Shand, Sheila M Innis, Peter von Dadelszen, Susan I Barr, Michael R Lyon, Susan J Whiting, Hope A Weiler, and Tim J Green

Idyllic press (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

New Editor

Howdy I am a student and will be hanging around and editing this page. I have seen some comments on this page about rickets and osteomalacia and the difference and the confusion on if they are the same, and this page I believe is very beneficial because rickets is the term for vitamin D deficiency in children only while the osteomalacia is the correct term for vitamin D deficiency in adults, editing the page and making it more understandable would give the audience for the article a better understanding of the article and the difference between the two terms

Samanthajones101 (talk) 01:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Minor Edits recently made

Howdy, I recently made a couple of edits for example I deleted the sentence that was there that did not have a reason to be. I thought that since it was already split into the subsections of the different treatments and it already mentions in those the most and least common that it was just extra.

Samanthajones101 (talk) 19:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)