Talk:Brian Bolland

Brian Bolland was a Art and architecture good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 22, 2012	Good article nominee	Not listed
January 11, 2023	Good article nominee	Not listed
July 11, 2023	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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Untitled

The detailed description of the plot and themes of The Killing Joke seems redundant, since it is already covered in detail in the article for that comic book. Remove? Mortene 20:59, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The gross overuse of quotations throws off the whole flow of the article. Many could be done without, simply reworded so as to eliminate the need to quote, or even left as they are, but without the quotation marks. Half of the things being quoted are so trivial they need not even be attributed to anyone, as anyone might say them on the subject. It's actually so bad that way too many of the quotes end up being fragmented and grammatically fitted to suit the sentence they are being used in. Some minor revision might be in order, although this might also entail reviewing the sources from which the quotations in question were drawn. User:chumbukket 22:57, 15 September 2009

I am wondering about this sentence.

" producing "a proper illustration of Jazz bassist Buddy Guy."[8] "

The Buddy Guy that I know, and the one linked to here, is a blues guitarist, not a jazz bassist. I understand that this is footnoted, so am reluctant to mess with it, but using something as a source that it wrong seems like bad wikipeding to me. Einar Carptrash (talk) 16:19, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GAN Nomination

Couple of citation needed tags in the lead. These should be sorted out before nominating. If the cites are in the body then you can simply remove them. They should be sorted out soon or it could be quickfailed. AIRcorn (talk) 11:39, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Recent work

Is he still working ? I see nothing much after 2013. Or is it just that the article has got out of date ? -- Beardo (talk) 20:29, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Unsuccessful. SL93 (talk) 02:01, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brian Bolland/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: SL93 (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

These have been taken care of. SL93 (talk) 23:54, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

"Brian Bolland was born in Butterwick, Lincolnshire, to parents Albert "A.J." John, a fenland farmer, and Lillie Bolland" - The word "parents" is not needed.
"He spent his "first 18 years" living "in a small village near Boston in the fens of Lincolnshire, England," but has "no memory of comics" much before the age of ten." - Too much quoting. This can be reworded to not have any quotes. The quote also needs to be attributed to the author within the article text.
"which fed into a childhood interest in dinosaurs of all shapes and sizes" - "which fed into" doesn't sound encyclopedic.
"the young Bolland to draw his own comics around the age of ten" - Too much explaining. Just saying "around the age of ten" would show that Bolland was young at the time.
"These adolescent criteria led from Dinosaurus! and Turok via House of Mystery to "Batman and Robin [who] were [often] being harassed by big weird things, as were Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman [etc]." The quote needs attribution to the author within the article text.
"Soon, family outings to Skegness became an excuse for the future artist to "trawl... round some of the more remote backstreet newsagents" for comics to store on an overflowing "bookcase I'd made in school woodwork especially." - There has to be a better way to word this than ending with the awkward "bookcase I'd made in school woodwork especially."
""Curt Swan, Murphy Anderson, Sid Greene, Joe Kubert, Ross Andru, Mike Esposito, Nick Cardy and the under-rated Bruno Premiani," - This doesn't need to be quoted if you remove "the under-rated".
"through the eyes of a seasoned professional." - This doesn't seem needed.
"Syd Jordan's Jeff Hawke [and] David Wright's Carol Day" - This can be reworded to Jeff Hawke by Syd Jordan and Carol Day by David Wright.
"Eric Bradbury's Mytek the Mighty and Jesus Blasco's Steel Claw". - Same issue as directly above.
""evidently said all the right things to me." - Very awkward. Maybe change to - Despite such a variety of inspirations, Bolland credits his eventual pursuance of art as a hobby and then vocation to a primary school art teacher. The end is superfluous and then quoting wouldn't be needed.
Growing up as "an only child in a house without culture," (Bolland says that his "mother and father had no use for art, literature or music"), he embraced the late 1960s pop culture explosion of "pirate radio stations, music (particularly Frank Zappa...), drug taking, psychedelia, "peace and love," "dropping out," the underground scene, Oz Magazine," and other aspects of hippy culture epitomised by underground comix such as Robert Crumb's Zap Comix. - This can be rewritten to not use quotations. The quotations within the sentence are also often wrongly placed.
"Learning to draw comics, however, was "more a self-taught thing" - The word "however" isn't needed. The sentence can be written to not use quotations.

UK career

"In 1971, his friend Dave Harwood "took his first step into printed mass production with his RDH Comix," for which Bolland provided a cover (featuring Norwich Cathedral)." This can be reworded to not use quotations. There is a " at the end which I think was added as a mistake.
"first paid job" - Reword the sentence that it's in to not use quotations.
"college newspaper... the Galloping Maggot." - Reword the sentence to not use quotations.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lead

The lead needs to be longer to accurately summarize all of the major points.

Early life part 2

"Having taken both O-Level and A-Level examinations in art, Bolland spent five years at art school (starting in 1969)" This can be rewritten to not use brackets.

2000 AD, Judge Death and Walter the Wobot

"Gibbons and Bolland were to draw alternate issues (Bolland's first issue was Powerman No. 2.)" - This can be rewritten to not use brackets.
"Other covers following (nearly a third of the first 30), as well as stand-alone pages and some inking duties on Gibbons' Dan Dare." - Same as directly above.
" Created for light relief" I'm not sure because I'm not familiar with Bolland's work, but would comedy relief work better? I saw that the quote right after mentions "spoofery, all the way to daft comedy."

Other UK work

"(Fellow fandom-pro artist Paul Neary had "already done quite a few.") - This can be rewritten to not use brackets, even if it needs to be combined with the sentence before it.
"star-studded" - I wonder if the source says star-studded exactly.
"As well as the DTWAGE adverts, Bolland also contributed (alongside most of his peers) artwork to advertise, and/or feature in programme booklets for the UK Comicon, starting c.1976." - This can be rewritten to not use brackets.

DC Comics

"artistic heroes" - I wonder if this is exactly in the source instead of personal POV.
"Jumping at the chance" - This doesn't sound encyclopedic.

Covers

It doesn't seem acceptable to say, "almost universally acclaimed", "to some of the more famous landmark comics", "with his photo-realistic work leaving an indelible impression", and "His iconic covers are in high demand" when the praise comes from a book by the subject.

Animal Man

"Happy coincidence" - That doesn't sound encyclopedic. Maybe just say that it was by coincidence.

Wonder Woman

"The Stunning return of comics' greatest heroine!" - "greatest should not be in bold.

Personal life

"The two have a son, Harry." Non-notable children's names are typically not mentioned in articles.

Wins

"received considerable recognition" - This is personal POV.
"(the SSI "was formed in . . . 1977," making this one of their first awards)." - This can be removed and nothing important will be lost.
His Eagle Awards win needs a citation.
"To date, he ties with James Jean (Fables cover artist) for five Cover Artist Eisners." - This needs a citation.

References

The 2012 GA review said, "Half, maybe two-thirds, of the article is sourced to the subject. This seems rather unnecessary; surely much of the article could be sourced to third party work. Self-published sources are discouraged, because they have an inherent bias." - I agree that is bad. Please try looking for as many alternative sources as you can.
References 52 and 69 have ref errors.

Images

The fair use rationale for the File:Hellstorm16.jpg image needs more information. "Apparent file taken from Marvel Comics official website." is not acceptable.

General

I have not finished the entire review. I was about to quick-fail this because the massive number of quotations were an issue at the 2012 failed GA. Go through the article and fix as many quotes as you can, even if you need to request help to look them over. I have never seen an article with so many quotes before. I will continue the review after that is at least attempted. SL93 (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I made all of the improvements you suggested so far, and will work on removing even more quotes within the next day. --FlairTale (talk) 23:34, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FlairTale Thank you. I hope that you don't mind if I don't get back to the review until tomorrow. I'm going to be a bit busy. SL93 (talk) 23:37, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, my plans for today aren't going to happen now. I will get to it. SL93 (talk) 23:51, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would not mind if you wanted to wait until tomorrow, as that would give me more time to de-quote more of the article before you reviewed it again. But if you want to do that sooner, I appreciate your time. I should have all of the next improvements done by tomorrow. --FlairTale (talk) 00:13, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FlairTale I finished up the review minus the quotes. I'm fine with waiting because nominators typically have 7 days to fix issues during GA reviews, and I'm willing to give you longer if needed. SL93 (talk) 00:33, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's only fair that I point you to the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Primary sources because notability concerns were mentioned there by two editors. SL93 (talk) 17:09, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm quick-failing this due to the massive use of one personal source and potential notability concerns. SL93 (talk) 02:01, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

SL93 I made nearly all of the next changes you suggested, with two things I wanted to ask. Is the "most universally acclaim" quote fine because those are Salisbury's words, not Bolland's? And I had actually wanted to expand the header more but found it difficult because so much of Bolland's career has been doing covers for comics that other artists did the interior art for. Do you have any suggestions of what more I could add in the header?

Also, I'm not sure how accurate it would be to call The Art of Brian Bolland an autobiography that Bolland self-published. Bolland isn't credited as a writer, and the books credits only read "Edited by Joe Pruett" and "Designed by Joe Pruett with Nathan Massengill [and] Shinn Uehara". Pruett is the creator of Desperado Publishing, which is the publisher of this book. And it was Pruett that was nominated for an award for the book while Bolland wasn't nominated for the award. Pruett made similar "The Art of..." books for P. Craig Russell, Jim Starlin, and Joe Jusko, so the projects seem to be his creations. --FlairTale (talk) 02:28, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm certain I could resolve any remaining issues within the week. Would it be possible to reopen the nomination? --FlairTale (talk) 02:29, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about notability. Even then, I regret not just quick-failing this which I actually could have because things from the 2012 GA was not taken care of. You can try for someone else. SL93 (talk) 02:37, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brian Bolland/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: David Eppstein (talk · contribs) 00:55, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The 2023 GA2 reviewer wrote: "I'm quick-failing this due to the massive use of one personal source and potential notability concerns".

The massive use of one personal source has not changed since that review. Indeed, the changes since the previous review do not seem to address issues from the review at all.

As such, I think this meets WP:GAFAIL #5: "A reviewer who has not previously reviewed the article determines that any issues from previous GA nominations have not been adequately considered". —David Eppstein (talk) 00:56, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Art of Brian Bolland

I've had a look at the book and it is clearly not independent of the subject. Bolland holds the copyright for the book, and it is all written like an autobiography. It can be a useful source for the article, but not for all the claims that it currently suports. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]