Talk:Ethan Allen Express

Untitled

"minor, not encyclopedic" GCW

Keep, encyclopedic. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. --Patrick 10:27, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Keep. Stubs are supposed to exist so people who think they aren't complete will expand them. Jamesday 12:29, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

References

I added some detail to the References so that there'd be something more than just numbers with external links in the References list at the end of the article. However, I don't know how to set it up when two references link or appear to link to the same source so that the information isn't repeated in the References list. 64.85.229.248 (talk) 01:19, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Whitehall segment had not seen a passenger train since 1936

Actually, segments don't have eyes. They don't "see", per se. This may be "journalism" but it isn't encyclopedic language. Either there had been passenger service or there hadn't. Just the facts. Dressing it up in informal language to "appeal" to people is tv-ish. Student7 (talk) 12:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

11,068 minutes of delay a mistake?

I know the cited article says so, but how's it possible for a train that runs one round trip per day to have 11,068 minutes of delay in a month? That's an average of 3 hours late. And this delay was eliminated by track work between Rutland and Whitehall, which is only 27 miles.

I think that might be a mistake in the Progressive Railroading article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by N1n2n3n4 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Ethan Allen Express/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 04:49, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Fresh eyes might find more to do as this GA has languished for four and a half months. Worth noting that between nomination and now, the Burlington extension opened, but that has been added in a GA-quality matter. Not much to do, really. 7-day hold to Pi.1415926535. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:49, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie: Thanks for the detailed review! I've fixed all the grammar issues, and two comments on other issues are below. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Copy changes

CinS = User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences.

Lead

• It was the first passenger service to Rutland since 1953, and the first to use the line between Rutland and Whitehall since 1936. remove comma (CinS)
  •  Done
• An infill station in Fair Haven, Vermont was..., An extension to Burlington, Vermont with... MOS:GEOCOMMA needed. Check for more of these throughout the article. There's even one in a photo caption.
  •  Done I think I found them all

Service

• Trains operate with two GE P32AC-DM dual-mode locomotives, one at each end, which operate on third rail electric power in Penn Station and the Empire Connection tunnel, and on diesel power for the rest of the route. Remove the second comma (CinS)
  •  Done

History

• Prior service between Rutland and points south was operated by the Delaware and Hudson Railroad over the Whitehall Branch (Rutland–Whitehall) and Washington Branch (Castleton–Eagle Bridge), and by the Rutland Railroad over its mainline (Bellows Falls–Rutland–Burlington) and Chatham Branch (Rutland–Chatham) remove that comma too (CinS)
  •  Done
• Amtrak took over intercity passenger service in the United States in 1971, and resumed the overnight Montrealer in 1972. Remove comma (CinS)
  •  Done
• The third paragraph becomes a slog with all the service changes, probably the only time in an article of yours I've gone "that belongs on Foamipedia". Consider reducing the detail level.
  • It is a bit detailed, but that's the result of me doing my best to summarize a complicated history (that takes up the better part of a page in the source book.) Unfortunately, I don't think there's any additional simplification I can do that doesn't either miss important points or lose context needed later.
• The project was funded by both the railroad and the state of New York at a cost of $3.25 million, and involved rebuilding about 8 miles (13 km) of track and eight grade crossings Remove comma (CinS)
  •  Done

Sourcing and spot checks

Earwig's highest-shared source is 14.5% with passages that include proper nouns, unavoidable strings of such like "Ethan Allen Express from Burlington to Essex Junction via", and such banal phrasing as "due to the COVID-19 pandemic". No issues there.

8 of the 77 refs were chosen for spot-checking, with no issues found:

• 7: I have a bit of trouble parsing this document especially as it's part of a combo ref. I believe it's being used for the 60 and 59mph figures? Y
• 24: Original timetable backs up listing of stops. Y
• 28: Another timetable. Can't say I'd encountered one of these before, but it looks right... Hard to parse, though. Y
• 33: At least this is a newspaper article that mentions Amtrak...selling ski packages and changing the timetable to match. Y
• 54: Given Amtrak’s allegation that poor track conditions account for 91 percent of the Ethan Allen Express’ delays Y
• 62: Press release mentioning the $1 promotional fare...it's basically ABOUTSELF for this, and it's only being used for that fact. Y
• 68: Trains article on the relocation of the former Rutland station.
• 69: Article on the separately funded Middlebury tunnel project.

Other items

• The images are all freely licensed, PD (the 1907 Rutland engraving), or used with permission (Hikki Nagasaki). All but the video have alt text (yes, you can give alt text to a video, and "refer to caption" will suffice).
  • The video does have existing alt text: Video of a passenger train with a locomotive and five passenger cars

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Amtrak called Vermont Rail System the worst host railroad in the country in 2010 due to delays on the Ethan Allen Express? Source: Burlington Free Press, February 24, 2011
  • ALT1: ... that the 2022 extension of the Ethan Allen Express was already proposed when the train began operation in 1997? Source: The Post-Star, April 28, 1996
  • ALT2: ... that the former New Haven Junction station was relocated to accomodate the extension of the Ethan Allen Express? Source: Trains, January 7, 2022
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Black Speech

Improved to Good Article status by Pi.1415926535 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:09, 30 November 2022 (UTC).

•  Reviewing... Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:39, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - see comments
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Pi.1415926535: Good article. However, i'm not exactly sure where it says that a 2022 extension was already being planned in the alt1 source. could you explain or provide another? Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: Bottom of the second column: Richard C. Bowen, the rail planner at the Vermont Transportation Agency, said the state hopes to eventually extend the Rutland train northward to Middlebury and Burlington. But Bowen said the relatively long route north of Rutland will take time and money to repair, while the Whitehall-to-Rutland route can be upgraded much more quickly. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:07, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: That doesn't confirm that they had already planned it. Rather, it states that they wanted to plan it. So the source doesn't verify the hook. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: Would substituting "proposed" for "planned" work? If not, we could go for ALT0 or ALT2. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 01:16, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: substituting planned for proposed would probably the best option here. Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: Done. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Approve. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:56, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535 and Onegreatjoke: seems to me that the information in ALT0 isn't fully backed up in the wiki article – are all the facts in there? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 06:42, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: What's missing? It's citation 54, second paragraph under "Further changes". Pi.1415926535 (talk) 15:59, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Not as much missing as I thought; I added a little bit for clarification and we're good to go. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:47, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Fares etc.

What do rides on this line cost? What is served in the cafe area on train and how affordable is it? Where/ how can tickets be obtained? Why is there talk of a "round trip" when there is only one route? Are all train stations accessible via public transport? 2A02:3031:1:D517:1:1:56B7:4545 (talk) 21:54, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

This isn't a forum, but if you think this stuff should be clarified in the article, keep in mind this isn't a travel guide like WikiVoyage.

• Pricing depends on various factors and changes over time so it might be hard to say accurately and concisely. Most Amtrak route articles don't mention pricing.
• Cafe details also vary and usually aren't listed in articles, see above.
• Ticking info is more a WikiVoyage thing and can easily be found by a web search.
• In American English, "round trip" means "there and back", but doesn't necessarily imply any sort of loop or second route. A train service with "one round trip per day" consists of two departure per day: one train running the route in each direction. This phrasing is consistent across all Amtrak articles.
• Connection info is already present in the "Station stops" section of the article.

QuincyMorgan (talk) 01:32, 5 January 2023 (UTC)