Talk:Isobel Gowdie

Untitled

I just heard an Interview with James Macmillan (see article) on BBC Radio 3 on 28 Feb 2010 in which he said she was tortured and that the torture may have driven her mad - hence the confessions. He then said she was strangled and burnt as described below. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.12.63 (talk) 17:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I am a direct descendent of Isobel Gowdie. My grandmother Margaret Gow Taylor Prattis told me Isobel confessed to being a witch in order to be granted a less painful death. Her confession was not voluntary. She confessed in order to be killed whilst the fire was low. Grandmother told me that her confession was that she gathered up faggots and made them into a broomstick and rode it through the sky. She had to "prove" she was a witch in order for them to accept her story and grant her a less painful death. Grandmother also said they made her children watch her death and she was disembowelled before being burnt at the stake.

Helen Gow Nolan email: rumpolette@pnc.com.au

It had been my understanding that she volunteered to give a confession to begin with, that she had not been accused, at least formally, at the time she gave it. If this is a misconception, that belongs in the article. Please, get yourself a username and a login so that you can have a talk page here, and welcome to the Wikipedia. -- Smerdis of Tlön 02:00, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It is my understanding that witches in Scotland were not actually 'burned to death' as is the common perception. The usual sentence recorded in the trial documents is for the witch to be tied to a stake, strangled, and her body burnt until it was ashes. This would seem to conflict with this story. Although of course I welcome the 1st posters input, and it is certainly interesting to hear the story as passed down through the generations of the family. --172.141.72.242 (talk) 23:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph that states: "What draws attention to her remarkable case is the fact that her admission of witchcraft sounds very much like the actual shamanic practices that are still in use today. She did not pander to the distorted beliefs of the Christian church about witches and the worship of Satan. There is no record of her ever being executed." may be entirely accurate. However it sounds like an opinion piece or a personal religious point of view.

Perhaps it could be re-written more in keeping with the tone of an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philip72 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Image

The nice image by robert ingpen was removed, and will most likely be removed from wikimedia commons, as its still under copyright.75.61.135.200 (talk) 01:23, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Isobel Gowdie/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Coffee (talk · contribs) 14:27, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   From Section 1: "historians offer differing opinions as to why this should happen"- should it not state "why this would" happen?

   Done. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

   From Section 2: "A little over two weeks later, on 3 May" ... "On 15 May Gowdie was brought" - need year

   Done. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

   From Section 2: "While in that form she was chased by a pack of dogs..." - would be better to say "she stated while in that form" or some such

   Tweaked. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   From Section 2: "Her first confession described an encounter with the Devil after she arranged to meet him in the kirk at Auldearn at night. Naming several others who attended including Janet Breadhead[c] and Margret Brodie, she said she renounced her baptism and the Devil put his mark on her shoulder then sucked blood from it. Other meetings took place at several locations, for instance Nairn and Inshoch" - None of this is sourced... at least not with direct inline citations.

   Added some more inline cites. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

   From Section 2: "She would have been detained..." - this sentence seems strange in its lack of certainty, but also seems unnecessary in detail if we don't have enough sourcing to back this up.

   I've left this as is; in the majority of the Scottish witchcraft cases, the sources are based on a lot of informed speculation. I do feel it's important to include the solitary confinement and the very high probability of her imprisonment being in the tollbooth - it is known for certain that it was in Auldearn. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   From Section 2: "a zealous, impatient man who had a fear of witchcraft and was less reluctant than others to attribute manifestations to magic" - This seems a bit authoritative for one historian's assumptions... perhaps tone down the judgemental verbiage?

   I've tweaked this a little bit; Forbes is described in another academic source as "not only a religious extremist, but was also obsessed with the threat of witchcraft and believed himself to have been a victim of maleficent magic." SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall: Hold until issues are fixed. Looks good to go! — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 18:20, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

   Pass or Fail:

@Coffee: - please have another look when you get the chance. Thanks. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)