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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinians killed by Israelis

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Palestinians killed by Israelis was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was ambiguous. The final tally was 14 clear delete votes and 8 keep votes. I would also have voted to delete under the argument that casualty lists are not inherently encyclopedic. However, even with my opinion, this would not reach a clear consensus. Failing to reach a clear consensus to delete, the decision defaults to keep.

Having reviewed the article and the discussion, however, I consider this article to be an unmaintained orphan and exercise my right as an ordinary editor to redirect it to Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Rossami (talk) 00:03, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unverifiable, forgotten and old, list page. In case you're wondering, there isn't an "Israelis killed by ...." version of this article (it'll redirect to one of the Israel conflict pages), so it's not unbalancing anything. Terrapin 14:51, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Being an old and forgotten list is a reason not for deletion, but for fixing. Furthermore this list is not unverifiable as it gives names and sources. I therefore contend that this VfD listing is invalid. —No-One Jones (m) 23:44, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Good for you. Terrapin 05:29, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Forgotten, difficulty in verifying, inherent incompleteness, danger of POV... Average Earthman 16:21, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Same issue as all these death lists. Inherently POV, impossible to verify, and inevitably becomes obsolete when the original motivated editor loses interest or moves on. Jayjg 16:31, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and fix as long as we're keeping the other IPC casualty lists. I invite those who voted to keep the other lists to explain why they're voting to delete this one. —No-One Jones (m) 16:56, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Well, I generally vote to delete these kinds of lists; I believe this has been my consistent policy, for the reasons I listed earlier. Jayjg 20:47, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Except in the debate linked above. Why that one and none of the others? BTW I quite agree that all these casualty lists ought to be deleted, but I don't agree with this kind of cherry-picking. —No-One Jones (m) 23:27, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Because, as I said, it was part of a larger problem. There were a whole series of related articles that needed to be fixed up, merged, NPOVd etc. Jayjg 03:57, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Yet that listing applied to the whole series. If there was a time to deal with them together, that was it. —No-One Jones (m) 04:14, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I didn't understand it as applying to the whole series; I don't think VfDs can do that, can they? If I had understood it that way, I would have voted differently. Jayjg 05:33, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • The whole list of pages was in the initial listing, but your explanation makes sense: it's not clear whether one can VFD a whole series at the same time. I retract and apologize for my accusations of hypocrisy. —No-One Jones (m) 21:58, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Thank you. I've generally seen sets of related articles each individually listed on VfD; I know I've voted on a number that were listed that way, which is actually quite tedious. My initial comment there could have explained my position better; I do have a tendency to write brief comments (if any at all) on VfD. Jayjg 22:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete and redirect to an appropriate page. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 17:58, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
  • 'Keep. - Xed 19:05, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. --Conti|✉ 19:38, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
  • If you're going to keep the Violence against the Israelis page, keep this one with a possible name change. Or merge with a more NPoV Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Darksun 20:20, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Inherent POV. --Improv 21:19, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Indrian 23:29, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Wikipedia is not the place for roll calls of the dead in any conflict. Gamaliel 05:26, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Why ever not? I would be more than happy to have a List of soldiers killed in Gallipoli. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:11, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete; generally concur, although, for example, would it be irrelavant to have a list of incidents in which ETA has conducted fatal attacks? or Al Qaeda? or (in the 1940s) Lehi? Which is to say, the list of the death toll of one side is not encyclopedic, but the list of attacks carried out by an organization might be. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:35, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Nobody's ever going to turn this into a anything resembling an inclusive list. The title doesn't even describe the actual content: "Palestinians killed by Israeli troops on October 31, 2001.". --jpgordon{gab} 04:16, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, but I am willing to reconsider my vote if the following conditions are met: 1) A distinction is made between militants and non-combatants. 2) A distinction is made between innocents targeted on purpose (e.g. bombing a civilian bus) vs. human shields vs. bystanders harmed by mistake in a police action aimed to prevent further terrorist attacks. In a court of law, a lot of difference is made between intentional victims of violence and those who died unintentionally. So should be in an encyclopedia. 3) The information found in other WP articles is not duplicated. 4) Hate-speech links are removed. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 05:56, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, circumstances of death do not establish notability. Gazpacho 13:52, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - I disagree. Circumstances of death can establish notability. I also recommend expansion and the creation of the opposite article Israelis killed by Palestinians, as these are just as notable. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:08, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Kill both lists, and sanction the edit warriors that made them. Ambi 10:14, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, and bear in mind that some users saying "delete both lists", have not in fact voted to delete the other list (Violence against Israelis). --style 11:46, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)
  • Keep most definitely, as the bullets and bombs are flying in both directions in this (civil) war. IZAK 15:00, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete I would say the same for a page claiming to list all Israelis killed by Palestinians.--Josiah 05:06, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep There should be a list of people killed from X year to Y year in this conflict. Pretending people are not being blown up, on either side, is simply not factual. --ShaunMacPherson 18:54, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Oh come on now! Since when has not listing every single casualty in a conflict been tantamount to denial? Is Wikipedia denying the Holocaust because it does not have a list of the 11 million (give or take) people killed in that horrific event? There is a difference between denial and the removal of information that in no meaningful way adds to our understanding of the conflict or the issues behind it. Indrian 22:51, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep -- [[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 22:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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